Cockersdale watercourses and mills

[Leodian]

That's interesting reading jim. I hope you can come to some definite conclusion. It does at times surprise me how quickly local 'history' can be lost or at least little and hard to find. I recall there was a Time Team dig at a site (not local) where some close-by houses had been demolished in only the 1970s yet it was very hard for the Time Team to find details about them and they had to mainly rely on the recollections of a person who had lived in one of the houses.

[jim]

jim wrote: Following up the possible identification of the loading staithe/early railway in the above posts of 28/05/10 by Si and myself, I have come across further information - and, of course, more questions!Some time ago I acquired a copy of "Stone Blocks and Iron Rails" by Bertram Baxter. It is now a rare (and expensive) book on pre-steam railways, complementary to M.J.T Lewis's "Early Wooden Railways". The extensive gazetteer contains the following entry:- DRIGHLINGTON. Tramroad "worked by machinery"(power operated incline?) from staithe in Cockersdale to Lower Collieries. No details. Opened: 1814. Traffic: coal.I tried to identify Lower Collieries by a post in the "Coal Mines in Leeds" thread on S.L. but without success. The best I can do is to put forward the nearest colliery which could conceivably have been rail connected to the Cockersdale site that might also fit the scanty details in the gazetteer entry. I have used the 1852 O.S. map (old-maps refs 422900, 429500) and various present day maps of the area. The 1852 map shows Whitehall Road in its present day configuration, but the road was only constructed (as a turnpike trust, Act of 1826) in 1833. Prior to this date it is apparent that the road route past the site would have been via Old Lane/New Lane/Gildersome Lane and so to Low Moor Side Lane and Low Moor Side itself. Presumably the embankment over Cockersdale was a part of the Turnpike works, and the route out of Cockersdale to the south was originally at a lower level in the valley bottom, west of the present access which goes down a straight steep evenly graded road. It is my theory that this modern access was actually laid on the course of the power operated incline mentioned in the gazetteer entry.There would have been some sort of construction with a barrel and brake wheel at the incline top for the descending loaded wagons to haul the empty returning wagons up the hill on their way back to the colliery. The 1852 map shows a trackway/footpath or some such continuing the alignment of the possible incline southwards to connect with Old Lane. The tramroad/railway might then have followed Old Lane through Nethertown to the colliery site shown on the 1852 map, possibly being the "Lower Colliery" referred to in the gazetteer.Yes, lots of conjecture, but I don't see an alternative. All further sugestions, alternatives, information, and cries of "rubbish" welcome.In conclusion, provision of a staithe, incline, and rail access for coal indicate that there must have been (for the period) a serious level of industrial working on this site around 1800-1830. My guess would be that it was iron working, and that the mills further down Cockersdale (and the possibility of more in the immediate vicinity of the staithe) were connected with this industry. Thanks Leodian. As my post has become "uncoupled" by the page changeover, I thought I'd bump it on,so to speak. At some time in the future, another walk may be in order to check that the lay of the land is as I believe it to be, and to take a look at the site of the colliery itself, which seems to have closed in the 19th century.    

[tilly]

Hi Jim at one time there was a toll road through the Fulneck Settlement could this have had any thing to do with the works in the valley.Just a thought but i cant see any reason to have a toll road there unless it was paying its way, there is a way down to the valley bottom from the Bankhouse the only problem i have with this is the settlement land ends before you get to the Bankhouse so they could have used Bankhouse Lane from the other end?Any thoughts am i way off track sorry about the pun.

[jim]

Hi Tilly. Whilst trying to research this one for you I came across a website that, knowing of your personal interest in Fulneck, should be fascinating to you (if you don't already know of it , of course!) It is entitled "Calverley history notes" and is a Genuki pdf.In section 6, Manufactures, mention is made of cloth made in the Pudsey area being taken to fulling mills in Cockersdale for treatment, a useful reference for our investigations, and section 8, Fulneck, is 25 pages of material that should keep you occupied for some time.To return to your query, it would appear that tolls on the road you refer to were levied by the owners of the property, for their own benefit, and possibly to preserve their privacy. This would be a purely local affair/ business, and I would expect cloth for Cockersdale would more likely have passed along Roker Lane. In any case, this would not have been a "Turnpike Trust", such as the case with Whitehall Road. This was the term given to an early form of company set up to provide a roadway of "Public Utility" by improving an existing route or building a brand new route between two or more specific points under an Act of Parliament. When passed the Act granted rights of compulsory land purchase and of setting fixed tolls for anyone or anything passing along the road when completed. The tolls were expected to recompense the proprietors for their investment, and to pay for the ongoing maintenance of the road.As can be detected, Turnpike Trusts were an early form of the companies set up to create canal and, in later years, railway systems.    

[The Parksider]

jim wrote: Some time ago I acquired a copy of "Stone Blocks and Iron Rails" by Bertram Baxter. It is now a rare (and expensive) book on pre-steam railways, complementary to M.J.T Lewis's "Early Wooden Railways". The extensive gazetteer contains the following entry:- DRIGHLINGTON. Tramroad "worked by machinery"(power operated incline?) from staithe in Cockersdale to Lower Collieries. No details. Opened: 1814. Traffic: coal.The best I can do is to put forward the nearest colliery which could conceivably have been rail connected to the Cockersdale site There would have been some sort of construction with a barrel and brake wheel at the incline top for the descending loaded wagons to haul the empty returning wagons up the hill on their way back to the colliery. In conclusion, provision of a staithe, incline, and rail access for coal indicate that there must have been (for the period) a serious level of industrial working on this site around 1800-1830. My guess would be that it was iron working, and that the mills further down Cockersdale (and the possibility of more in the immediate vicinity of the staithe) were connected with this industry. Hi JimFascinating stuff.I can't offer much, but note that the colliery you identify was marked as a "colliery" unlike the many coal pits, so the term seems to indicate a mine on a larger scale.Anything on the tithe maps?I'm of course put in mind of the much later rope hauled incline from Middleton Colliery up to the village staithes.In the gazeteer you mention the reference to Drighlington - are there other references in and around Leeds???

[jim]

Hi Parksider. Baxter's gazetteer mentions railways at Smawthorne Lane, Castleford; Castleford to Abeford; Bowling Ironworks; Bierley Works; Wibsey Low Moor; Royds Ironworks, Leeds: Osmondthorpe , Leeds, and the Drighlington-Cockersdale tramroad.AS the book is specifically about those railways first constructed using iron rails or tramplates, it does not cover those initially built with wooden rails, such as Middleton or the many Aire and Calder feeder lines. These are dealt with in "Early Wooden Railways", M.J.T. Lewis, which does not contain a gazetteer.Another book covering both wooden and iron railways is "A History of British Railways Down to the Year 1830", C.F.Dendy-Marshall (1938 ), but as a (comparatively) early work on railway pre-history it is somewhat short on information and detail. All of these books are concerned with the overall history of early railways and their technical progress, and detail of individual lines is generally confined to innovation, so little is said to help researchers into local history.     

[The Parksider]

jim wrote: Hi Parksider. Baxter's gazetteer mentions railways at Royds Ironworks, Leeds: Osmondthorpe , Leeds, and the Drighlington-Cockersdale tramroad.All of these books are concerned with the overall history of early railways and their technical progress, and detail of individual lines is generally confined to innovation, so little is said to help researchers into local history. Thanks Jim.I'm happy that books don't tell me everything because as we both know it's fun finding out!!At osmonthorpe the tramway to the staithe is still easy to pick out as a diagonal ginnel easing down to the site of Osmondthorpe pit. I'll have me maps out later......What do you interpret as "Royds Ironworks" is that FarnleyWhat dates does the gazeteer put on these. I was very suprised at a pre-1830 date for a rope worked incline at Drighlington....

[jim]

Hi Parksider. Numerous rope worked inclines surprisingly can be clearly dated back to C1600 both in Britain and on the continent, so that at Cockersdale C1814 should not surprise us.The gazetteer entries you enquire about read as follows:-"Royds Ironworks. Tramroad from the iron works into Leeds. No date. Traffic: ironstone. O.S. : SE23SE.Osmondthorpe (Leeds). Group of short lines in the region of Halton Dial and Osmondthorpe (or Oswinthorpe) (1 mile). No traces remain, now submerged in a built up area. Opened by 1829. O.S. : SE33SW."I am uncertain as to the location described as "Royds", but would find it difficult to reconcile it with Farnley Ironworks, which in any case were not commenced until well after 1850, and appear to have been locomotive railway worked from the start . Perhaps a site in the Gelderd Road/ Elland Road/Cottingley area might be indicated? As I recall the Osmondthorpe system was covered on another SL thread by Phill D and others, although I believe I am correct in remembering that the lines proceeding south and east of the Leeds-York/Selby railway were not dealt with in any detail.Always more to find out!    

[The Parksider]

jim wrote: Hi Parksider. Numerous rope worked inclines surprisingly can be clearly dated back to C1600 both in Britain and on the continent, so that at Cockersdale C1814 should not surprise us.The gazetteer entries you enquire about read as follows:-"Royds Ironworks. Tramroad from the iron works into Leeds. No date. Traffic: ironstone. O.S. : SE23SE.Osmondthorpe (Leeds). Group of short lines in the region of Halton Dial and Osmondthorpe (or Oswinthorpe) (1 mile). No traces remain, now submerged in a built up area. Opened by 1829. O.S. : SE33SW."I am uncertain as to the location described as "Royds", but would find it difficult to reconcile it with Farnley Ironworks, which in any case were not commenced until well after 1850, and appear to have been locomotive railway worked from the start . Perhaps a site in the Gelderd Road/ Elland Road/Cottingley area might be indicated? As I recall the Osmondthorpe system was covered on another SL thread by Phill D and others, although I believe I am correct in remembering that the lines proceeding south and east of the Leeds-York/Selby railway were not dealt with in any detail.Always more to find out!     I've heard of "Beeston Royds" maybe.....What do those OS references point you to Jim?

[jim]

I was hoping someone would tell me how to interprete the map references Parksider, they don't follow any system that I have come across previously. I have set them down as they appear in the book, and await instruction from the more knowledgable of the site. Any assistance gratefully received.As to Royds", there are a number of sites in the Leeds 12 area with this description, Far Royds, Beeston Near, Royds Lane, etc. making identification of the ironworks site mentioned difficult.