Jointly operated bus services

pyramar · Post by **pyramar** » Sun 04 Sep, 2011 7:27 pm

The LCT 72 and 78 bus services were jointly operated with Bradford City Transport and LCT seemed to contribute every alternative bus. The 55 was jointly operated with Yorkshire Woollen and seemed to work by an entirely different method. I cant recall ever seeing an LCT 55. Does anyone recall how it worked? Did LCT do every alternate day perhaps?

majorhoundii · Post by **majorhoundii** » Sun 04 Sep, 2011 10:13 pm

pyramar wrote: The LCT 72 and 78 bus services were jointly operated with Bradford City Transport and LCT seemed to contribute every alternative bus. The 55 was jointly operated with Yorkshire Woollen and seemed to work by an entirely different method. I cant recall ever seeing an LCT 55. Does anyone recall how it worked? Did LCT do every alternate day perhaps? Not sure, but LCT certainly ran buses on the 55 service, maybe at weekends.Another joint service into Sovereign Street was the Yorkshire Woollen/West Riding services to Ossett, Overton and Netherton. Sevice 16/17 on the Yorkshire and 116/117 on the West Riding.

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Sun 04 Sep, 2011 10:34 pm

Awaits the response from the experts. Blakey?Meanwhile jointly operated services have been ressurected in Leeds in the last 18 months with Centrebus and First sharing some services.

amber · Post by **amber** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 12:00 am

In the 60s LCT ran the 55 service for a period of time Then YW took over. I think it was about 3 months at a time. There was no Sunday service.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 9:58 am

amber wrote: In the 60s LCT ran the 55 service for a period of time Then YW took over. I think it was about 3 months at a time. There was no Sunday service. Sorry to disagree Amber - timetables at dawn etc - but the 55 Bruntcliffe service was jointly operated by LCT and YWD. There was a service on Sundays, starting at lunchtime, and to balance the mileage agreement all the Sunday journeys were run by LCT.Tykebhoy - the present situation with Centrebus and others is totally different from the old "joint operation" system. In those happier days any joint operation was by "gentlemen's agreement" and endorsed, or insisted upon, by the Traffic Commissioners. Nowadays if the till isn't jangling with sufficient profits the operator - who whispered "First" ?? - simply declines to run journeys not taking enough brass and leaves the door open for any other firm to run them. Also "poachers" for the want of a better word can and do, since privatisation, run similar services to the established operators - the wastage and poor standards are nothing short of horrifying. One current typical skirmish can be seen now between Wetherby and Harrogate - true, the passengers appear to have never had it so good but there's only a hundred pennies in a pound and the arithmetic doesn't add up.Service 72 was traditionally operated jointly by Leeds and Bradford Corporations, even in tram days. Service 78 though, via Pudsey, was Samuel Ledgard's old route. Ledgard sold out to West Yorkshire RCC (14/15 Oct 1967) but WYRCC felt unable to take on the whole Sammy's empire and therefore, very shortly before the transfer date, hived off three of Ledgard's routes to LCT, who agreed with Bradford to run the 78 jointly also. The two other Sammy's routes which LCT retained fully were Leeds - Hawksworth Road - Horsforth (initially LCT 26) and Troydale - Pudsey - Calverley (initially LCT 48/81).

amber · Post by **amber** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 1:46 pm

Hi Blakey my old pal. So its a duel at dawn. Result Timetable 1 Memory 0. I know when i'm beaten LOL

Uno Hoo · Post by **Uno Hoo** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 5:19 pm

Just to add to the confusion, West Yorkshire Road Car also operated a 55 service between Leeds and Bradford via Kirkstall, Horsforth, Rawdon, Guiseley, White Cross, Charlestown, and Shipley.I can just imagine some poor confused passenger in Leeds wishing to go to Bruntcliffe, and upon spotting a red bus showing 55, boarding it. For those of us with longer memories, YWD buses were a deep crimson lake (maroon) until 1952, when it adopted a very boring allover red, no doubt to reduce paint costs.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 6:05 pm

amber wrote: Hi Blakey my old pal. So its a duel at dawn. Result Timetable 1 Memory 0. I know when i'm beaten LOL Its easy done Amber - its a long long time ago. Never mind the duel at Dawn - I think it'll be better to shake hands instead, besides that's all I've strength for in my dotage now !!

pyramar · Post by **pyramar** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 6:12 pm

Thanks for your comments, but Sundays apart, how did the arrangement work? I assume the service only needed one bus so LCT and YW were not alternate vehicles. Did they do alternate days or parts of the day. And am I right in thinking that the 203 204 joint LCT WR Fastaways to Kippax/Garforth never saw an LCT vehicle?

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Mon 05 Sep, 2011 6:19 pm

Uno Hoo wrote: Just to add to the confusion, West Yorkshire Road Car also operated a 55 service between Leeds and Bradford via Kirkstall, Horsforth, Rawdon, Guiseley, White Cross, Charlestown, and Shipley. Indeed, and actually there were a fair number of these anomolies prior to 1974. Just a few other examples are :-1 Huddersfield (YWD) or Beeston - Lawnswood (LCT)10 Kettlethorpe (WR) or Roundhay - Belle Isle (LCT)16 Overton (WR) or Seacroft - Bramley (LCT)36 Ripon (WYRCC/UNITED) or Bus Station - Tinshill (LCT) or Elland (YWD)44 Bridlington (EYMS/WYRCC) or Halton Moor - Stanningley (LCT)45 Bridlington (EYMS/WYRCC) or Stanks - Wortley (LCT)46 Hull (EYMS/WYRCC) or Bramley - Belle Isle (LCT)A very early initiative By WYPTE (Metro) was to introduce a Countywide route numbering system which eliminated very nearly all of these problems - I was very impressed by this and still am.