Secret Leeds, arguing and bickering and 2011.

Croggy2 · Post by **Croggy2** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 3:49 pm

I think if 'rules' are posted then any posts not in keeping with them should be deleted, or threads locked pending admins decision, if necessary.Of course personal opinions on matters are fine, but personal attacks should not be tolerated. That is the basis of all forums I have ever used.One problem here is the lack of pm facilities (and I know it has been discussed before and is not possible) but they are very useful in passing on 'warnings' or explanations of moderating decisions.

slw · Post by **slw** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 3:55 pm

It is impossible for every member to agree with everything that is posted on the forum as eveybody has their own views, opinions and ways for interperating what has been written. Because of this I think it would be a good idea (as previously stated) to have a set of guidelines to posting/forum etiquette. Something that can be referred to if there is any doubt to whether a post is inappropriate. I appreciate that everybody is entitled to their opinion and will want to voice it, however it can be frustrating when you just get into reading the info on a thread and it is interrupted by "bickering" (more the insults etc, rather than opinions)I am glad I found this site as I have learned a lot about Leeds, I am grateful to all who post no matter how big or small their contributionis. So if there was a vote on the way forward, my vote would be to have a thread with a set of guidelines and for mods/admins to have the final say.... but that's just my opinion

oldleedsman · Post by **oldleedsman** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 4:11 pm

Leeds-lad wrote: The problem with this site is that if you are not in the "gang" and have a differing view you can expect all sorts of varying degrees of nastiness to be aimed at you.Unfortunately this threads instigator is one of those such people. I may be missing something, but I just don't understand all this. As stated above, the mission of the site is "dedicated to investigating quirky, unusual or mysterious aspects of the built environment of the city of Leeds, both past and present."So, why should gang mentality come into it and personal animosity?The site should be about Leeds and once it starts to stray into anything personal or clearly off-topic, then it should be dealt with. Just ban any trolls & delete their posts.This site is a massive and incredibly useful resource of Leeds related information, most of which isn't documented anywhere else. It would be such a shame to lose it because of some unrelated arguments and disagreements. So, clear rules implemented fairly. If people don't like it, then they can go elsewhere.

Trojan · Post by **Trojan** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 4:17 pm

Leeds-lad wrote: The problem with this site is that if you are not in the "gang" and have a differing view you can expect all sorts of varying degrees of nastiness to be aimed at you.Unfortunately this threads instigator is one of those such people. I tend to agree with this view, having myself last year been what I certainly considered at the time to be the victim of this clique. With disturbing questions asked about my ethnic origin, and some of my posts altered after they'd been made. TBH I try and steer clear of any controversy these days. I found it extremely upsetting at the time.

String o' beads · Post by **String o' beads** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 4:51 pm

There is a set of guidelines recently published here:http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messag ... eadID=2764

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 5:43 pm

The guidelines say "If you can't say something nice, it's best to say nothing at all". Truly the most sensible statement on this sad situation.Even if someone says something you seriously dislike, DO NOT RESPOND. If we all follow this idea, the problems will disappear like the snow. Disagreement is normal, and perfectly acceptable if done in a civilised way. What most of us find unacceptable is ill-tempered conflict, leading to the problems we are experiencing.The answer lies in our own hands - every one of us. Please think about it. And if anyone wishes to argue with me on the content of this message, please do so in private at my e-mail address, to be found by clicking onto my user ID. I will not muddy these pages any further by discussing the matter on the pages of Secret Leeds.The situation has become undignified enough.

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 5:55 pm

I can't speak for every individual but it often is the case that a small number of people seem to take personal offence at the slightest suggestion of anything differing from the way they want things to be.It is tiring.It seems difficult for some also to understand that post/threads are edited to the principles demanded by the site originators. Endlessly repeating the same questions of why or I don't agree, will not change the answer that exists moreover, repeating it here will not attract the attention of those you might desire for a different answer.You have been asked to leave the site for its intended purpose and properly direct you displeasures or otherwise to those in a position to answer you further. Sadly the will to respect this request or even the understanding of why continues to be beyond some.Above all else please remember that the moderators do their best to apease misunderstandings and disagreements even though they personally may not agree with things. That is the name of the game - doing as we were asked and that includes clearing out dead threads and pointless posts unrelated to the site's aims - including this present neverending diatribe.An approprite portion of the guidance issued to the content moderators was this, broad terms but encompasses what we try to do:'Basically we want you guys to help tidy up SL a bit - get rid of some of the waffle, move threads to more appropriate forums where necessary, and monitor any inappropriate language and content. The buck still stops with me and munki obviously, so if there are any situations you don't want to get tangled up in, just let us know and we'll handle them. But generally speaking we just need you to keep your eyes open and your keyboards at the ready to clear the place up and keep it in good order'.Be quite sure in the early days with the Admins being hands-on, many more posts were deleted without any warning with a strictness we would not wish to see return - but at least then the place was congenial.mail to:[email protected]

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 8:03 pm

i am sorry to see this rearing it's head again as I thought we had got over this.brandy & csosni,don't leave we need your knowledge and input.The reasons for admin being needed have been set out earlier.all forums on the net ,mailing lists and bulletin boards have moderators to enable them to both run and keep within the law and/or ISP providers rules on content. Secret Leeds is no exception.However if it is deleted because of thoughtless acts by a minority ,then a priceless archive of information on the Leeds district will have been lost forever.The sheer breadth and depth of information of posters on here constantly amazes me.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 8:53 pm

As someone who moderated on another forum for several years, I know how soul destroying it can be.Locking posts isn't necessarily the answer as by the time the thread is locked whatever is being construed as contentious is often already posted for all to see. Sadly I think the time has come for a harder line to be taken with people who cross the line of what is acceptable to the majority. If that means deleting posts without warning then so be it.I've learnt so much about this wonderful city that I've lived in all my life from the posts that have been made on here that it would be a crying shame to lose secretleeds. That is what makes this such a great place, the collective knowledge of the posters and a (generally) unencumbered willingness to share that knowledge and experiences.It's thanks to Phill's artistry with his camera that persuaded me to go out and buy a decent camera myself and start taking photos of my own - although I've yet to venture down a sewer in search of the perfect shot I really hope that we don't lose any posters over this, especially those who have contributed so much.Lets make 2011 a great year, rather than starting it with regret.

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 9:24 pm

You mention raveydavey "Phill's artistry with his camera". I second that as I'm in admiration of the superb quality of the photos taken by Phil during his explorations and also his excellent historical notes. I've seen many things on high parts of buldings in Leeds that I would like to photograph but know from experience that my compact digital camera is just not good enough to produce good enough quality optical zoomed photos. I clearly need a better camera!