Coal Mining in East Leeds

[jan8]

Didn't the road that ran from Bullerthorpe Lane to Cross Green used to be called the Black road ?

[Leodian]

chameleon wrote: Somewhere near here? Hi chameleon. Yes it was around there. Sorry I cannot be more precise but it was about 55 years ago since I was last there! Walking on the track towards the houses on Halton Moor (off image to the right) the spring was next to the track on the left. With other kids we used to try to stop the flow but never succeeded. I recall that any object put in the water (including non-metal ones) soon got a coating of rusty particles.

[grumpytramp]

Leodian wrote: Apologies that this may have little direct to do with coal mining in East Leeds but in view of the mentions of iron in the thread I thought it might be of interest. In the early to mid 1950s I used to walk on a track (? called Black Road) that went to part of Halton Moor on the way to Templenewsam. At one point there was a spring that always ran strongly and was very heavily iron stained. Though told not to drink it I (and the other lads) always had a drink of it. There were some less active springs that ran iron stained in the fields nearby. I've never been in the area since then, so I don't know if the iron laden springs are still active. See attached If you use old-maps.co.uk and look at the OS maps of 1854 and 1893 you will see two springs are noted. One is shown to be in the northern verge of what became Halton Moor Lane and then Halton Moor Road and the other is closer to Wyke Beck but set back from the road in the Yard of Halton Moor RoadThe iron percipated about the mouth of such springs and old mine adits is a natural consequence of water passing over coals, shales, mudstones, fireclays or ironstones that are rich in Iron Pyrites. To cut a long story short by a combination of chemical reactions soluble iron disolves into the water. When the water emerges from the spring, contact with air rapidly oxidises the soluble iron which becomes insoluble result orange gunge! [see my post 23 March 2010 here http://secretleeds.co.uk/forum/Messages ... Message=50 for more of the science]The water would have been quite safe to drink ......... jinx if you had added some sugar and CO2 you could have free Iron Bru

[Leodian]

grumpytramp wrote: Leodian wrote: Apologies that this may have little direct to do with coal mining in East Leeds but in view of the mentions of iron in the thread I thought it might be of interest. In the early to mid 1950s I used to walk on a track (? called Black Road) that went to part of Halton Moor on the way to Templenewsam. At one point there was a spring that always ran strongly and was very heavily iron stained. Though told not to drink it I (and the other lads) always had a drink of it. There were some less active springs that ran iron stained in the fields nearby. I've never been in the area since then, so I don't know if the iron laden springs are still active. See attached If you use old-maps.co.uk and look at the OS maps of 1854 and 1893 you will see two springs are noted. One is shown to be in the northern verge of what became Halton Moor Lane and then Halton Moor Road and the other is closer to Wyke Beck but set back from the road in the Yard of Halton Moor RoadThe iron percipated about the mouth of such springs and old mine adits is a natural consequence of water passing over coals, shales, mudstones, fireclays or ironstones that are rich in Iron Pyrites. To cut a long story short by a combination of chemical reactions soluble iron disolves into the water. When the water emerges from the spring, contact with air rapidly oxidises the soluble iron which becomes insoluble result orange gunge! [see my post 23 March 2010 here http://secretleeds.co.uk/forum/Messages ... Message=50 for more of the science]The water would have been quite safe to drink ......... jinx if you had added some sugar and CO2 you could have free Iron Bru One of those springs may well be that which I have been referring to. I notice on an 1894 map there were a Halton Moor Farm and a Nineveh Lodge in the same general area as the spring would have been. I have no recollection of any buildings or remains in that immediate area so I guess they must have been demolished some years before the early to mid 1950s.PS. I like the sound of free Iron (Irn) Bru.     

[The Parksider]

grumpytramp wrote: Well done Parkie for taking on the task of collating the elements of this thread that connect to the Wyke Beck, iron production and the Foundry Mill. My conclusions on reviewing all of this today, is that my own narrative will probably be at odds with some of Parkies.So I had better explain.I suspect that the once profitable iron workings and associated bloomeries in the Wyke Beck valley were in terminal decline by some indeterminate time in the sixteenth century as the easily won ironstone was wrought out and as Roundhay/Seacroft became less able to provide sufficient charcoal. In support of this statement I refer to a recently acquired a copy of Steven Burt’s excellent “An illustrated history of Roundhay Park” where he makes a few useful references:(i) A 1628 Corporation of London survey that ’mines of coal in Roundhay and Roundhay Grange late in the tenure of John Carpenter’ had been worth 6s 8d but are now ‘out of use’(ii) He states “as tree cover was removed, a critical factor became the supply of wood to make charcoal. This is made very clear in the Rental for 1424-25 which states ’there is there a certain iron mine which is worth nothing yearly unless there has been a sale of dry underwood, and if there has the mine is worth 12d weekly and the dead wood for burning weekly 19s’. However the supplies of ironstone were also becoming exhausted and by the sixteenth century production had ceased completely”Fast forward to 1725 when we understand Foundry Mill began producing iron and the world had changed. Abraham Derby had revolutionised iron production using coke, I suspect that that the iron works at Foundry Mill was a speculative venture taking advantage of the locations happy advantages:(iii) Mining technology allowed deeper deposits of Black Band Ironstone to be won You were never going to be at odds with me because you have the superior knowledge and research ability, so I have written several pages posted some stuff to prompt and suspended continuation until you have commented.I basically followed Stephen Burts narrative, I had contacted him some time ago and he had walked the valley with an expert on the medieval iron industry. He'd have benefitted from you as well!!!Looking up the blast furnace in it's early years it did indeed need charcoal, yet I have the references you mention to that running out including the tenant's identity who flogged off all the trees!!!So it remained a conundrum as to why mathers would build a mill for smelting iron with no charcoal, but of course Burts text places Mathers in the section on the Iron Industry (& coal) so an assumption was made...............Given your knowledge of the Iron and coal deposits in the area could you speculate where the early ironstone may have been won, and where the deeper deposits may have been extracted?i.e. was ironhills medieval or c.1700?? Was Ironstone possibly imported from the coalfield on seacroft moor and Manston c.1700?

[The Parksider]

grumpytramp wrote: A wee sketch to illustrate Absolutely fascinating......So your conclusion is there was a significant grain grinding mill below Foundry Mill but it stood on the leat itself which, is there today and we have assumed it was a straightened Wyke Beck!!!The stonework in the banks of the watercourse today and the old weir at the foxwood farm site are remnants of the leat??It makes sense of course, the only problem I have is that Thorpe's Map of 1819-1821 (In Mr. Burts book) doesn't quite help us here.I do believe Thorpe actually shows the dam and Mill pond very clearly under the "h" in Roundhay and later OS maps show it as a dried up oval shape.The not so straight Wyke Beck appears to flow southwards, under asket hill roadway wiggling slightly as it makes it's way to the point at Low Gipton. This is in the latest hypothesis the leat.The "old course" of the wyke is shown to the east of the supposed leat yet it takes a much straighter line veering off at asket hill to head north to Roundhay Grange???????. Or does it??????There is a straight line and a dotted line depicted and essentially that runs right around the boundary of the Park in 1821So although it makes sense that the park boundary may follow the original course of the wyke, with a major beck being a natural boundary between townships, the way Thopre drew his map is most inconclusive.In addition on Burts OS map (pp4 of his book) appearing to come from the weir at Asket Hill/Eastfield cottage is a double line that stops being a double line at The Rein - looking more like a beck.And in Taylors 1803 plan of Roundhay the beck is depicted as wiggling all the way from Asket Hill to Low Gipton......Anyway - mapping inaccuracies apart???? I wonder wether the grinding mill was dismantled and re-built as the corn mill where the Foundry was later installed. They's have shifted the stone from the leat/back at Low Gipton and carted it up to the last position.But why?? Is this because they could have a stronger "overshot" wheel as opposed to undershot wheels in the beck?

[The Parksider]

grumpytramp wrote: A wee sketch to illustrate It's a cracking excert with comments. Your red line of the old course of the wyke points to a line that is a boundary, and not conclusively the old course. From the point of the red arrow go directly north a few meters (milimeters on the map) to the double line - that looks more like the old course.As I say If Taylor and Thorpes maps were to be believed the Wyke beck was straightened between 1821 and 1854!!!!!

[frisbee]

I love this thread. I grew up a stone's throw from this section of the wyke beck and spent many happy childhood days jumping over and often falling into the beck. I've often thought about whether or not the beck run on its original course or not. It's fantastic to know some of the answers to questions i've had in my head for 30 odd years. Thanks guys.

[The Parksider]

frisbee wrote: I love this thread. I grew up a stone's throw from this section of the wyke beck and spent many happy childhood days jumping over and often falling into the beck. I've often thought about whether or not the beck run on its original course or not. It's fantastic to know some of the answers to questions i've had in my head for 30 odd years. Thanks guys. It's been fascinating for me too, I was from Boggart Hill Drive BTW where were you from?? Yes the beck is as straight as a die and engineered as such - and yes there probably was a more natural course just east of where it is now. The OS maps indicate that yet older maps do not. Any straightening of the beck surely must have pre-dated the earlier maps (wether for a Bloomery or corn mill) but they don't show this!!GT will have the answer!!

[Leodian]

As a kid in the early to late 1950s I used to play around the Wykebeck area. One particular thing I remember was a metal tube (I think it was metal) that ran across the beck not far from Halton Moor Avenue. It was a schoolkids dare to walk across it, as a fall could have been very dangerous. I wonder if it is still there today (even if it is I certainly would not dare to walk across it now!). I never did know what was inside it (assuming something did run througn it).