Car Park closures

Post by **cnosni** » Tue 30 Nov, 2010 3:44 pm

Reginal Perrin wrote: cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: Short stay is fine in town. We use The Light and it's cheap enough for a two hour shopping trip. It's full day commuter parking that is crazy if you need it every day that's why the decision to close these car parks is insane. They need to start setting up park and ride now. Well they have cancelled the Christmas Park and Ride due to lack of demandI suspect that if we ran a park and ride all year then,like York,which is permanant and with dedicated buses and permanent pick up/drop off points at the destination,cheap parking and travel then the council WILL get their "stated" aim of reducing traffic in the city centre,and will probably lead to more people coming to the centre because they know that Leeds has a system like York. I've never heard of aChristmas park and ride. What is it and did it serve commuters? I suspect not, therefore it would be of no use in replacing affordable parking. It doesn't surprise me one bit that it has been cancelled due to lack of interest if it was aimed at shoppers and was badly publicised. A Christmas Park and Ride was for Christmas shoppers,it did not serve commuters hence "Christmas Park and Ride".The point was not about replacing affordable parking,mereley hilighting an aspect of a point you raised being that-"They need to start setting up park and ride now"The point being if they wont invest in just a seasonal park and ride then its highly unlikeley that they want to invest in a permanant park and ride such as Yorks very successful (and much used by me) park and ride.It was on Woodhouse Moor and Scott Hall Road and used First BusIf its not established people will not use it,whereas York goes all year,with a dedicated parking area rather than a rough bit of ground open to car break ins.Have searched the YEP site,thats where i saw the article,but there is no mention of the cancellation,which was in a tiny article at the bootom of a page about a fortnight ago.Neither on LCC web site,clearly it was that poorly used that no one even cares to mention it.In fact it was so poorly advertised that the only "archive" mentions i can find on the web are-Leeds travel guide - WikitravelThe Scott Hall Road scheme features a park and ride site to the north of Leeds, opened in the 1990s .... Leeds Christmas Illuminations (Leeds Lights), [34]. ...wikitravel.org/en/Leeds - SimilarandNews & Initiatives | Leeds | UK Bus | Firstgroup PLCFirst will now run a skeleton bus service free of charge on major routes in Leeds (see below). Christmas Park and Ride services, will also run as normal. ...www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/yorkhumber/leeds/news/archiv... - SimilarThe latter doesnt even have any info when you follow the link.

Post by **cnosni** » Tue 30 Nov, 2010 3:48 pm

Just to prove (to myself as well) that im not going mad!!Found some more,including this from i know yorkshire website-"Cheap Parking in Yorkshire for Cheap Airport Parking, and Cheapest Parking in YorkshireCheap parking in Leeds ranges from park and ride services into the town centre to city centre car parks, street pay and display parking and multi storey car parks. After 6pm you can find free street car parking in Leeds. Some Leeds car parks are free on Sundays. At Christmas free park and ride parking has been laid on to encourage shoppers into the city centre without increasing congestion. Cheap parking is available in many Leeds and Yorkshire city centre car parks on Sundays and often after 6pm. For cheap airport car parking at Yorkshire Airports, the best cheap airport carparking is available online and cheap airport car parks tend to be located further away from the terminal buildings, but still with a regular free shuttle bus service available."http://www.iknow-yorkshire.co.uk/travel ... l.htmLooks like no one told themand on page 20 of this link,under the heading achievementshttp://www.leedsarts.org/assets/0/708/736/828/ ... 3640C5.pdf

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Tue 30 Nov, 2010 4:50 pm

cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: Short stay is fine in town. We use The Light and it's cheap enough for a two hour shopping trip. It's full day commuter parking that is crazy if you need it every day that's why the decision to close these car parks is insane. They need to start setting up park and ride now. Well they have cancelled the Christmas Park and Ride due to lack of demandI suspect that if we ran a park and ride all year then,like York,which is permanant and with dedicated buses and permanent pick up/drop off points at the destination,cheap parking and travel then the council WILL get their "stated" aim of reducing traffic in the city centre,and will probably lead to more people coming to the centre because they know that Leeds has a system like York. I've never heard of aChristmas park and ride. What is it and did it serve commuters? I suspect not, therefore it would be of no use in replacing affordable parking. It doesn't surprise me one bit that it has been cancelled due to lack of interest if it was aimed at shoppers and was badly publicised. A Christmas Park and Ride was for Christmas shoppers,it did not serve commuters hence "Christmas Park and Ride".The point was not about replacing affordable parking,mereley hilighting an aspect of a point you raised being that-"They need to start setting up park and ride now"The point being if they wont invest in just a seasonal park and ride then its highly unlikeley that they want to invest in a permanant park and ride such as Yorks very successful (and much used by me) park and ride.It was on Woodhouse Moor and Scott Hall Road and used First BusIf its not established people will not use it,whereas York goes all year,with a dedicated parking area rather than a rough bit of ground open to car break ins.Have searched the YEP site,thats where i saw the article,but there is no mention of the cancellation,which was in a tiny article at the bootom of a page about a fortnight ago.Neither on LCC web site,clearly it was that poorly used that no one even cares to mention it.In fact it was so poorly advertised that the only "archive" mentions i can find on the web are-Leeds travel guide - WikitravelThe Scott Hall Road scheme features a park and ride site to the north of Leeds, opened in the 1990s .... Leeds Christmas Illuminations (Leeds Lights), [34]. ...wikitravel.org/en/Leeds - SimilarandNews & Initiatives | Leeds | UK Bus | Firstgroup PLCFirst will now run a skeleton bus service free of charge on major routes in Leeds (see below). Christmas Park and Ride services, will also run as normal. ...www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/yorkhumber/leeds/news/archiv... - SimilarThe latter doesnt even have any info when you follow the link. Cnosni, you didn't need to put all this up. A cancelled Christmas Park and Ride serving shoppers only from the North is not any guide as to how a city wide park and ride would work. It's not the same thing and if anyone at the council used it as a justification for not looking at real commuter park and ride thwy would be an idiot.York does work and is a far better model to look at.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Tue 30 Nov, 2010 8:19 pm

The problems with the Christmas Park and Ride was where you had to park.There were several routes - off the top of my head, one from Torre Road (site of the former bus garage, what is now Benfield Ford), one from the Tulip Retail Park, one from Burley Road (car park behind YTV) and one from Woodhouse Moor. You simply drove to your chosen destination, got out of the car, saw the nice man (who also doubled up as car park security) who gave you your free tickets and got on the bus. Buses picked up / dropped off at one set point for each route - several were outside Lewis's / Alders, the one from South Leeds was near Dysons Clock (I think). They were numbered 888 and 777, etc.Now, given that you had to drive to the appointed car park to get the bus, in most cases you were only 5 minutes from the centre of Leeds anyway, which kind of diminishes the appeal doesn't it?The schemes were reasonably well used to begin with and they ran for several years, but gradually most fell by the wayside - Torre Road was sold to developers, (presumably) the Tulip Retail Park thought it wasn't a good idea to watch everyone parking up and going into Leeds rather than shopping there, etc.You could (in theory) travel back and forth between Leeds and your car with your Christmas shopping if it got too much to carry, but that is hardly likely for the vast majority is it? And, as has already been commented on the scheme was poorly publicised - I think there were a couple of temporary signs on the M621 but that was about it.There is no political will in Leeds to work with motorists - that is to give them a sensible alternative. Sadly it seems to be the politics of envy, or "we know best". It's ironic that York has such a well thought out Park and Ride scheme just a few miles up the A64.

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 01 Dec, 2010 11:14 am

Reginal Perrin wrote: cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: Short stay is fine in town. We use The Light and it's cheap enough for a two hour shopping trip. It's full day commuter parking that is crazy if you need it every day that's why the decision to close these car parks is insane. They need to start setting up park and ride now. Well they have cancelled the Christmas Park and Ride due to lack of demandI suspect that if we ran a park and ride all year then,like York,which is permanant and with dedicated buses and permanent pick up/drop off points at the destination,cheap parking and travel then the council WILL get their "stated" aim of reducing traffic in the city centre,and will probably lead to more people coming to the centre because they know that Leeds has a system like York. I've never heard of aChristmas park and ride. What is it and did it serve commuters? I suspect not, therefore it would be of no use in replacing affordable parking. It doesn't surprise me one bit that it has been cancelled due to lack of interest if it was aimed at shoppers and was badly publicised. A Christmas Park and Ride was for Christmas shoppers,it did not serve commuters hence "Christmas Park and Ride".The point was not about replacing affordable parking,mereley hilighting an aspect of a point you raised being that-"They need to start setting up park and ride now"The point being if they wont invest in just a seasonal park and ride then its highly unlikeley that they want to invest in a permanant park and ride such as Yorks very successful (and much used by me) park and ride.It was on Woodhouse Moor and Scott Hall Road and used First BusIf its not established people will not use it,whereas York goes all year,with a dedicated parking area rather than a rough bit of ground open to car break ins.Have searched the YEP site,thats where i saw the article,but there is no mention of the cancellation,which was in a tiny article at the bootom of a page about a fortnight ago.Neither on LCC web site,clearly it was that poorly used that no one even cares to mention it.In fact it was so poorly advertised that the only "archive" mentions i can find on the web are-Leeds travel guide - WikitravelThe Scott Hall Road scheme features a park and ride site to the north of Leeds, opened in the 1990s .... Leeds Christmas Illuminations (Leeds Lights), [34]. ...wikitravel.org/en/Leeds - SimilarandNews & Initiatives | Leeds | UK Bus | Firstgroup PLCFirst will now run a skeleton bus service free of charge on major routes in Leeds (see below). Christmas Park and Ride services, will also run as normal. ...www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/yorkhumber/leeds/news/archiv... - SimilarThe latter doesnt even have any info when you follow the link. Cnosni, you didn't need to put all this up. A cancelled Christmas Park and Ride serving shoppers only from the North is not any guide as to how a city wide park and ride would work. It's not the same thing and if anyone at the council used it as a justification for not looking at real commuter park and ride thwy would be an idiot.York does work and is a far better model to look at. You said you had never heard of it,so i provided links to demonstrate it isnt all part of a dream;~I am try to make the point that if the council cannot be bothered /dont want to make such a small seasonal operation a success then they probably arent bothered about a permanant one.I did not say it was a guide as to how a city wide scheme would work,i said that there appears a clear lack of will on the councils behalf,for whatever reason.As i said i am all for such a permanant system,and if such a system was was introduced then shoppers would also use it and bring more money and less cars into the centre.Yorks park and ride is such a system,for commuters and shoppers.The links i provided are to demonstrate that that one contributing factor to the lack of sucess is that there was no serious promotion of the scheme,as your not knowing about it clearly demonstrates.Even if there there is no huge expensive media advertisement of the scheme then at least an online promotion could have been attempted, a search of the web produces little or no results and therefore clearly shows that this did not take place.The link i posted to the council paper is pertinant to this thread in that the the council say that they wish to encourage people to use short stay car parking,this is suspect is their main thrust as it brings them revenue,hence the refusal for planning permission on the Holbeck car parks.I am sorry if all this seems laboured,but i merely made a small comment about the Christmas park and ride,and statement that i believe you were correct that we should have a permanant system, didnt expect to be told i didnt need to pull up all the stuff i did just to answer your reply that you had not heard of it.

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Wed 01 Dec, 2010 1:02 pm

cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: cnosni wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: Short stay is fine in town. We use The Light and it's cheap enough for a two hour shopping trip. It's full day commuter parking that is crazy if you need it every day that's why the decision to close these car parks is insane. They need to start setting up park and ride now. Well they have cancelled the Christmas Park and Ride due to lack of demandI suspect that if we ran a park and ride all year then,like York,which is permanant and with dedicated buses and permanent pick up/drop off points at the destination,cheap parking and travel then the council WILL get their "stated" aim of reducing traffic in the city centre,and will probably lead to more people coming to the centre because they know that Leeds has a system like York. I've never heard of aChristmas park and ride. What is it and did it serve commuters? I suspect not, therefore it would be of no use in replacing affordable parking. It doesn't surprise me one bit that it has been cancelled due to lack of interest if it was aimed at shoppers and was badly publicised. A Christmas Park and Ride was for Christmas shoppers,it did not serve commuters hence "Christmas Park and Ride".The point was not about replacing affordable parking,mereley hilighting an aspect of a point you raised being that-"They need to start setting up park and ride now"The point being if they wont invest in just a seasonal park and ride then its highly unlikeley that they want to invest in a permanant park and ride such as Yorks very successful (and much used by me) park and ride.It was on Woodhouse Moor and Scott Hall Road and used First BusIf its not established people will not use it,whereas York goes all year,with a dedicated parking area rather than a rough bit of ground open to car break ins.Have searched the YEP site,thats where i saw the article,but there is no mention of the cancellation,which was in a tiny article at the bootom of a page about a fortnight ago.Neither on LCC web site,clearly it was that poorly used that no one even cares to mention it.In fact it was so poorly advertised that the only "archive" mentions i can find on the web are-Leeds travel guide - WikitravelThe Scott Hall Road scheme features a park and ride site to the north of Leeds, opened in the 1990s .... Leeds Christmas Illuminations (Leeds Lights), [34]. ...wikitravel.org/en/Leeds - SimilarandNews & Initiatives | Leeds | UK Bus | Firstgroup PLCFirst will now run a skeleton bus service free of charge on major routes in Leeds (see below). Christmas Park and Ride services, will also run as normal. ...www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/yorkhumber/leeds/news/archiv... - SimilarThe latter doesnt even have any info when you follow the link. Cnosni, you didn't need to put all this up. A cancelled Christmas Park and Ride serving shoppers only from the North is not any guide as to how a city wide park and ride would work. It's not the same thing and if anyone at the council used it as a justification for not looking at real commuter park and ride thwy would be an idiot.York does work and is a far better model to look at. You said you had never heard of it,so i provided links to demonstrate it isnt all part of a dream;~I am try to make the point that if the council cannot be bothered /dont want to make such a small seasonal operation a success then they probably arent bothered about a permanant one.I did not say it was a guide as to how a city wide scheme would work,i said that there appears a clear lack of will on the councils behalf,for whatever reason.As i said i am all for such a permanant system,and if such a system was was introduced then shoppers would also use it and bring more money and less cars into the centre.Yorks park and ride is such a system,for commuters and shoppers.The links i provided are to demonstrate that that one contributing factor to the lack of sucess is that there was no serious promotion of the scheme,as your not knowing about it clearly demonstrates.Even if there there is no huge expensive media advertisement of the scheme then at least an online promotion could have been attempted, a search of the web produces little or no results and therefore clearly shows that this did not take place.The link i posted to the council paper is pertinant to this thread in that the the council say that they wish to encourage people to use short stay car parking,this is suspect is their main thrust as it brings them revenue,hence the refusal for planning permission on the Holbeck car parks.I am sorry if all this seems laboured,but i merely made a small comment about the Christmas park and ride,and statement that i believe you were correct that we should have a permanant system, didnt expect to be told i didnt need to pull up all the stuff i did just to answer your reply that you had not heard of it. I wasn't questionning it's existence or your memory. My point was that I'd not heard of it and it's irrelevance. Nothing more than that. I understand your supposition that the council may not choose to seriously support a commuter park and ride if they do not promote a seasonal shopper one but they really are two different issues.One is fast becoming essential and th eother is a questionable ides it he first place and I'm sure no-one is mourning it's passing.

Misc · Post by **Misc** » Thu 02 Dec, 2010 9:56 am

The White Rose needs to have the bus services improved - it's ludicrous that there is no service from Beeston Town Street going along Elland Rd. I do use the White Rose but I am relatively young and fit and a half hour walk along the side of a dual carriageway isn't a huge problem (coming back laden with shopping can be though). I'm sure a lot of elderly folk in Beeston would rather get the bus to and from White Rose than go into town.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sun 05 Dec, 2010 5:55 pm

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Lee ... 24.jpLEEDS United fans were dealt a blow today with the news that the cost of parking around Elland Road during match days is to rise in the New Year.The charge for cars will rise from £5 to £6, the charge for mini-coaches will go from £10 to £12, and there will be a £5 increase for coaches making the cost £20.Leeds City Council is giving supporters a month's notice of the changes, with posters around the ground during home matches from this weekend's fixture with Crystal Palace.More than 1,900 vehicles use the five car-parks around Elland Road on match days, with a maximum capacity of 3,650.The council says the charge has remained the same for the past four years but includes VAT, which is set to rise in the New Year.Martin Farrington, Leeds City Council's acting director of city development, said: "Leeds United and Elland Road are an intrinsic part of Leeds and we obviously would not want to do anything that would put people off from going and supporting their team at home."However, it has been four years since any rise in the cost of parking for matches at Elland Road and not only have our costs increased significantly but we are also reluctantly having to accommodate a rise in VAT."We have tried to keep the rise to a minimum while ensuring we can continue to provide thousands of parking spaces close to the ground for match days."What a swizz - Leeds Council parking revenues are down by over £1 million this year across the city, partly due to the state of the economy but also surely due to the ever increasing rates they charge. The council is already forcing the commuter car parks in the Holbeck area to close (instantly removing 2,500 much needed, sensibly priced parking places), but is now having it's pound of flesh from Leeds United fans too.I love the bit about it being down to the VAT increase - what codswallop.The current actual charge for parking a car, excluding VAT is approx £4.27 (plus around 73p in VAT). When the VAT rate increases that will result in around an extra 10p being due in VAT - which the council have kindly rounded that up to an extra quid.Rip Off Leeds.

Post by **chameleon** » Sun 05 Dec, 2010 6:12 pm

raveydavey wrote: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Lee ... 24.jpLEEDS United fans were dealt a blow today with the news that the cost of parking around Elland Road during match days is to rise in the New Year.The charge for cars will rise from £5 to £6, the charge for mini-coaches will go from £10 to £12, and there will be a £5 increase for coaches making the cost £20.Leeds City Council is giving supporters a month's notice of the changes, with posters around the ground during home matches from this weekend's fixture with Crystal Palace.More than 1,900 vehicles use the five car-parks around Elland Road on match days, with a maximum capacity of 3,650.The council says the charge has remained the same for the past four years but includes VAT, which is set to rise in the New Year.Martin Farrington, Leeds City Council's acting director of city development, said: "Leeds United and Elland Road are an intrinsic part of Leeds and we obviously would not want to do anything that would put people off from going and supporting their team at home."However, it has been four years since any rise in the cost of parking for matches at Elland Road and not only have our costs increased significantly but we are also reluctantly having to accommodate a rise in VAT."We have tried to keep the rise to a minimum while ensuring we can continue to provide thousands of parking spaces close to the ground for match days."What a swizz - Leeds Council parking revenues are down by over £1 million this year across the city, partly due to the state of the economy but also surely due to the ever increasing rates they charge. The council is already forcing the commuter car parks in the Holbeck area to close (instantly removing 2,500 much needed, sensibly priced parking places), but is now having it's pound of flesh from Leeds United fans too.I love the bit about it being down to the VAT increase - what codswallop.The current actual charge for parking a car, excluding VAT is approx £4.27 (plus around 73p in VAT). When the VAT rate increases that will result in around an extra 10p being due in VAT - which the council have kindly rounded that up to an extra quid.Rip Off Leeds. Expensive business you know Davey - collecting money from ticket machines I'm sure there is little profit being made

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Mon 06 Dec, 2010 12:48 pm

I'd love to know in what way their costs have increased unless they are agreeing pay rises for staff when most private sector workers have had nothing extra in the last 3 or 4 years.So what is warranting a 20% increase? Or is it the cost of laying yellow lines in places where people would normally have parked for free?I kid you not, last week I saw the traffic wardens out ticketing cars that had clearly been left because of the weather.