Have Our Transport Planners Lost the Plot? (If indeed they ever found one)

[Riponian]

"I have often wondered if a study has ever been undertaken to determine the (effectively) additional pollution and congestion created by taxis and private hire vehicles travelling to and from pick-up and drop off points, when as is going to be the case for a proportion of the time, they are not transporting anyone anywhere. "I remember the time time not so long ago where the glut of taxis on the Headrow brought all the traffic to a halt. I think they'd been breeding, or it was something to do with the allocation for the airport.Maybe LCC, eager for revenue, just keeps issuing taxi and PHV plates until all the cars in Leeds are taxis or Private Hires. Are there too many of them? Not that I want to deprive anyone of their living, but possibly we already have too many and nowhere for them to wait without clogging some area up.

[tyke bhoy]

Unless there has been a cull Riponian the Headrow problem has just moved to somewhere else. The Headrow problem was caused by a crack down on Boar Lane which was often gridlocked with Taxis approaching in both directions to join the queue for the station rank this was imediately after LBA kicked out the black and whites.Ridiculously part of LCCs solutuion to this was to remove the traffic island and 3 way traffic light (including two traffic and one pedestrian cycles) at the Mill Hill junction with a zebra crossing.Now anyone who knows the highway code, knows that as soon as there is a pedestrian on a zebra all vehicular traffic flow must stop. That section of Boar Lane has a constant flow of pedestrians in both directions from very early morning until late at night so in theory it’s the equivalent of an almost permanent red light and no, or very little, traffic should be able to turn into Mill Hill at all.

[jim]

The basic problem seems to be that if provision was made for the roads to carry and the car parks to accommodate all the private cars and other vehicles that want to access the city centre..........ALL the existing buildings would have to be demolished! ( they may have started with the White Cloth Hall....)Unfortunately unless a viable mass transit system that the majority of people will accept and actually USE, and reserve their personal transport for none-city-centre journeys is found we will continue to have such problems.    

[Reginal Perrin]

jim wrote: The basic problem seems to be that if provision was made for the roads to carry and the car parks to accommodate all the private cars and other vehicles that want to access the city centre..........ALL the existing buildings would have to be demolished! ( they may have started with the White Cloth Hall....)Unfortunately unless a viable mass transit system that the majority of people will accept and actually USE, and reserve their personal transport for none-city-centre journeys is found we will continue to have such problems.     Easy solution. Make the buses cheaper. End the contracts of the bus companies and have a subsidised bus service into town from the major suburbs. 50p anywhere you want to go. So it would be £5 a week to travel to work not 5 times that. Why are we obsessed with eberything having to turn a profit. Some things are just essential. Stick Radio Aire on in all buses to boost income. Hand out free YEP's and on them on the way home and Metro's in the morning, Shorlist and Style magazines weekly.    The money spent on crackpot schemes and current subsidies to bus comapnies must be enough to make it viable.The tram or trolley bus idea is stupid, no-one will use it who currentl used a car, we need a good, affordable bus service that's all.    

[jim]

Hi Reginal Perrin. ( out of interest, where did the d go? ) I'm sorry,I've got to disagree with you on this one. Buses are now outdated, seriously slow - especially when OMO - cause almost as much of an impediment to traffic as they try to solve, and are no longer used by the majority of the public for those reasons. This means that on buses the antisocial population of this city is more noticeable and so the cycle continues. Trolleybuses would be more of the same.Using the term "tram" makes people think of the pre 1959 boneshakers we used to have. Splendid in their day, they are no longer relevant. Have you ridden on Manchesters Light Rail system? They take about a third of the time of the buses serving the same area, and are more comfortable and more luggage and pram friendly. Their major advantages are dedicated routes for the most part, no queueing for tickets at the vehicle entrance, and steel wheels to steel rails which make for a superior ride. People will walk farther to take them for these advantages.What Leeds needs to solve its problems is an interurban light rail system. Manchester, Nottingham, West Midlands, Croydon, East London and ( spit ) Sheffield all have successful systems up and running. Most of them are extending or proposing to extend their systems.Leeds fails to get Government funding for many purposes because our Council ( under whatever political party ) has been too successful in keeping rates and Council tax down. Our annual per capita payments are,I believe, the lowest of major urban districts in the country, and National Government takes the attitude that putting Government money into our city will subsidise low Council tax. Local Government fears that rises in Council Tax will mean defeat at the next election. So the cycle continues. I don't have an answer to that........but we need interurban light rail. It is the only answer to our traffic problems.End of rant, steps aside sharply to avoid inevitable fall-out and rain of invective.    

[raveydavey]

Riponian wrote: "I have often wondered if a study has ever been undertaken to determine the (effectively) additional pollution and congestion created by taxis and private hire vehicles travelling to and from pick-up and drop off points, when as is going to be the case for a proportion of the time, they are not transporting anyone anywhere. "I remember the time time not so long ago where the glut of taxis on the Headrow brought all the traffic to a halt. I think they'd been breeding, or it was something to do with the allocation for the airport.Maybe LCC, eager for revenue, just keeps issuing taxi and PHV plates until all the cars in Leeds are taxis or Private Hires. Are there too many of them? Not that I want to deprive anyone of their living, but possibly we already have too many and nowhere for them to wait without clogging some area up. I don't see how one taxi, with it's engine running all day is any more environmentally friendly than any other car, even if they do occasionally have a passenger in the back. They way some of them race around they probably emit more CO in a day than I do in a month. As an aside, private hire vehicles are exempt from the London Congestion Charge, so lots of people down there have registered their car as a private hire car to get the discount (they don't actually do any mini-cabbing) - which is fine until they have an bump and they find out their insurance company won't pay out...I tell you, this congestion is being deliberately engineered in to justify a congestion charge - you mark my words.And finally....got to the end of the M621 at 5.44pm tonight, got to City Square at 6.01pm. 17 blooming minutes!    

[Cardiarms]

I drove past this for the first time this after noon before the rush hour and it was OK but didn't lok like the cleverest solution. Later I tried to get from the Adelphi to Water lane and then Holbeck and beyond. The traffic was queing back on meadow lane to Great George Street as the traffic into town was backed up from the station right past Bewley's hotel. No idea if this was normal but ended up going dow the M621.

[tyke bhoy]

Cardiarms wrote: I drove past this for the first time this after noon before the rush hour and it was OK but didn't lok like the cleverest solution. Later I tried to get from the Adelphi to Water lane and then Holbeck and beyond. The traffic was queing back on meadow lane to Great George Street as the traffic into town was backed up from the station right past Bewley's hotel. No idea if this was normal but ended up going dow the M621. I take it you mean Great Wilson Street as the George variety would be a helluva a queue. I thought this morning the timing must have been lengthened on the BG St lights as Victoria Road/Neville Street was flowing pretty freely. This evening though it was back to what has become the Norm as you and Ravey have noted. I left City Square on a 5:15 bus and the outside lane of Meadow Lane was blocked back to GtWilson st with traffic trying to merge right with Victoria Road bound traffic which was queuing well back past Bewley's. Its certainly now a regular occurrence in both the morning and evening rush hours.    

[Keg]

Agree with Reggie, and disagree that Trams or light railways are the solution. They have fixed running areas ( Rails), no flexibility and the infrastructure is hugely expensive. We are trying to be a Berlin or a Budapest. We are a medium sized northern industrial city. So what if Sheffield and the midlands has them?.They can't come off their rails and go round the estates, and after all, the rails are just another form of bus lane.So.... what's the answer?. Guided buses in my opinion. They can come off their busways when they get to the end of their main routes ( say A65,A65,A660, Hunslet Road or any main artery) go into places like Tinshill, Cookridge, Colton, Seacroft etc and all the other estates.Infrastructure is a lot easier and cheaper.

[Cardiarms]

I've never under stood the point of a 'guided bus'. Am I missing something or would a dedicated bus lane do the same job?