Leeds trolley buses set to get the go ahead!

[Phill_dvsn]

The thing with the trolley bus is, it just cannot be intergrated into the railway network as it does in Mancheester, Just look at all the disused lines around Leeds that could be re introduced for future expansion.Tramways have designated areas on and off road.A trolley bus is a just bus with a pole on it..    

[jim]

Putting on my pedantic head (well,I've got to be good at something),I believe that the underlying aim of this succession of proposals is less to cater for Leeds residents than to get out-of -town commuters to leave their vehicles and "park and ride" into Leeds.I can't see any other reason for siting one of the terminals at Stourton,where no one lives any more,and running the service through an area of Hunslet containing minimal residential property.Although the Holt Park route runs through a much more populated area,I believe the hoped-for patronage to be the same. That being the case,we need to take a different viewpoint on what the PTA is trying to achieve.I don't think they want to provide for residents,they want to reduce commuting road cloggers.Whether they can succeed without using one of the two best options (respectively heavy and light rail) remains to be seen. If I am right,most comments/complaints focus on targets that don't exist,and a rethink is in order.    

[Phill_dvsn]

265 million pounds is a hell of a lot of money to waste on trying to tempt people out of there car Jim. Tempting people out of there car, has never worked on any of these schemes yet.For the simple reason... It's easier, and quicker to stay in your car, rather than use the crowded, expensive, slow, time consuming hassle there trying to tempt you with as a better alternative choice. The money should be saved towards a proposal that will benefit the city. One that has potential to develop, and expand with it. We don't want electrified shuttle busses, purple 'street cars' or short stretches of useless guided bus way's. We want a proper Supertram system like Manchester. We don't want hotchpotch ideas thrown together.Leeds has to accept half baked, half measure, and useless schemes all the time.    Leeds City folk are been fobbed off with rubbish other cities won't have..All the time were falling behind the big boys!                                        

[chameleon]

jim wrote: Putting on my pedantic head (well,I've got to be good at something),I believe that the underlying aim of this succession of proposals is less to cater for Leeds residents than to get out-of -town commuters to leave their vehicles and "park and ride" into Leeds.I can't see any other reason for siting one of the terminals at Stourton,where no one lives any more,and running the service through an area of Hunslet containing minimal residential property.Although the Holt Park route runs through a much more populated area,I believe the hoped-for patronage to be the same. That being the case,we need to take a different viewpoint on what the PTA is trying to achieve.I don't think they want to provide for residents,they want to reduce commuting road cloggers.Whether they can succeed without using one of the two best options (respectively heavy and light rail) remains to be seen. If I am right,most comments/complaints focus on targets that don't exist,and a rethink is in order.     This is the rethink Jim and one of several with finance for options akin to those you suggest having been denied leaving only the bottom of the barrel - do what you can for the money - left. My daughter, during the bad weather had to comute to Bradford from whinmoor daily without her car with an average round travel time of some 4+ hours/day using public transport - a big chunk of someones working day and personal time. PT doesn't work nor will itwhilst the focus of profit in private enterprise rides in front of public service.

[jim]

Phill Dvsn,and Chameleon, I agree with your thoughts completely.Just to add to my previous post, it should be added that high-speed Urban Transport depends on the speed element being provided by having as few stops as possible.A stop does not depend solely on the time taken standing but must include acceleration and deceleration allowances.In this respect heavy rail is at the greatest disadvantage, as a stop will add c5 min to journey times.Two stops take10 min, and suddenly the journey time from, say, Skipton and Keighley, looks much less attractive.At the same time,new custom, (if any) will cause overcrowding,extra carriages are phenomenally expensive, longer journey times mean higher track occupation time, meaning less possible trains.................Tha gets nowt for nowt. Back to the purple slug (I won't dignify it with capitals} I think it will turn out to have only two stops between Stourton and the City Centre,that it will rely heavily on priority at junctions etc,and that its chief Achilles heel will be insufficient doors for loading and unloading.We need dedicated brand new RAIL links, anything else is tinkering ineffectually with the problems.Unfortunately, the problem is money, and both local and national government are scared to death of the implications in one major area.........Thats right, TAX.

[tyke bhoy]

To be fair I think the intention is for large swathes of the trolleybus routes to be dedicated rather than road sharing however I think that sounds a lot like another of our pet hates "guided bus ways".Stourton is crying out for a Park and Ride given the brown field and not very green field sites available but as I have said before why not use the underutilised Pontefract Line. I realise it is now less underutilised now that there is also a Nottingham Express via Sheffield on the route but it still must have some spare capacity and probablyy the ability to use longer trains.

[jim]

The apparently dead-in-the-water tram was sold under the eyecatching logo "SuperTram". Surely an equally bold presentation is required for the "slug". Got it, "StuperTroll"!

[cnosni]

jim wrote: Phill Dvsn,and Chameleon, I agree with your thoughts completely.Just to add to my previous post, it should be added that high-speed Urban Transport depends on the speed element being provided by having as few stops as possible.A stop does not depend solely on the time taken standing but must include acceleration and deceleration allowances.In this respect heavy rail is at the greatest disadvantage, as a stop will add c5 min to journey times.Two stops take10 min, and suddenly the journey time from, say, Skipton and Keighley, looks much less attractive.At the same time,new custom, (if any) will cause overcrowding,extra carriages are phenomenally expensive, longer journey times mean higher track occupation time, meaning less possible trains.................Tha gets nowt for nowt. Back to the purple slug (I won't dignify it with capitals} I think it will turn out to have only two stops between Stourton and the City Centre,that it will rely heavily on priority at junctions etc,and that its chief Achilles heel will be insufficient doors for loading and unloading.We need dedicated brand new RAIL links, anything else is tinkering ineffectually with the problems.Unfortunately, the problem is money, and both local and national government are scared to death of the implications in one major area.........Thats right, TAX. Hi JimFrom what ive seen the class 333 have excellent deceleration/braking capabilityand an acceleration rate from a stand,easily up to line speed in no time at all.This lessens overall dwell times and so the knock on effect is reduced considerably with extra stops.There are 2 stations proposed on the Airedale line,at Newlay/Kirkstall Forge and Apperley so the journey time on here is going to be lengthened.May 2011 will see a major overhaul of thECML time table,this is bound to have an effect on all services in and out of Leeds,so concerns over lengthening of journeys/track congestion could also be addressed.It would have been great if this (new stations)could also be done on the Selby line,between Crossgates and Garforth at Barnbow.Another excellent location WOULD have been at Ardsley,but they've built on that now.Unfortunately we can come up with all the ideas we want,but in the current climate we're going to get the cheapest possible option,if anythimg at all.As for TBus it looks as if it is really aimed at reducing commuter traffic from outside of Leeds,thus reducing overall traffic at peak times.However this is not the line being pushed by the authorities,its being pushed as a replacement for Supertram and a more eco friendley mass transport system for the citizens of Leeds.Clearly this cant be the case as the City Loop/East route has not been approved.So the park and ride is all well and good,but where is the quality for the actual citizens?The tram train idea would have been ideal,they are trialling it of course...................................In Sheffield!!

[Chrism]

I think this will go the same direction as the trams, nowhere.

[chameleon]

jim wrote: Phill Dvsn,and Chameleon, I agree with your thoughts completely.Just to add to my previous post, it should be added that high-speed Urban Transport depends on the speed element being provided by having as few stops as possible.A stop does not depend solely on the time taken standing but must include acceleration and deceleration allowances.In this respect heavy rail is at the greatest disadvantage, as a stop will add c5 min to journey times.Two stops take10 min, and suddenly the journey time from, say, Skipton and Keighley, looks much less attractive.At the same time,new custom, (if any) will cause overcrowding,extra carriages are phenomenally expensive, longer journey times mean higher track occupation time, meaning less possible trains.................Tha gets nowt for nowt. Back to the purple slug (I won't dignify it with capitals} I think it will turn out to have only two stops between Stourton and the City Centre,that it will rely heavily on priority at junctions etc,and that its chief Achilles heel will be insufficient doors for loading and unloading.We need dedicated brand new RAIL links, anything else is tinkering ineffectually with the problems.Unfortunately, the problem is money, and both local and national government are scared to death of the implications in one major area.........Thats right, TAX. To illustrate the failings, I have Metro/Council literature going back to the 70's promising super efficient user friendly, congetsion busting and affordable public transport 'coming shortly'. Short comings as is clearly demonstrated.If it happens and it's usable and takes me where I need to go, when I need to be there, I'd try to use it. Not selling the car just yet.