Leeds City Transport

[trophy]

just been reading a book about west yorks buses ,i was suprised to see that LCT had about 20 crossleys up to about 1959 .i cant remember ever seeing one.i am suprised LCT persevered with these being non standard and having a reputation for unreliable engines.

[BLAKEY]

[quotenick="raveydaveyThe conductor on board is the only good idea about these buses.One of the worst bugbears I have with them is the appalling use of interior space. The actual seating capacity is little more than a traditional single decker with around half the passenger capacity being standing. Standing isn't a good idea on a full bus doing 30 mph carving through traffic on narrow streets. Then the seats are too narrow and in the "lounge" area at the rear there isn't anywhere for everyones legs to go if all the seats are occupied.Plus, it's now on record that First also used them to put the skids under the last Supertram bid, but promising the then Transport Secretary (Alastair Darling) that they could do the job with ftr's at minimal cost. A cynic might suggest it had more to do with the tram operator concession going out to tender and them potentially missing out.............................................................................................................You have a staunch ally here raveydavey. The purple monstrosities are the worst insult yet to anyone's intelligence in the ever increasing "marketing" madness with which the industry is being blinkered and strangled. Mauufacturers and operators and passengers are seemingly unaware of the appalling actual standard of the vast majority of modern vehicles. Gaudy pastel shades and decor, uncomfortable seating (marginally improved of late), windows plastered with extensive and largely un-noticed "in house" advertising seem not to matter any more. The "route branding" farce is simply an expensive and ir-relevant nonsense, whether the vehicle is on the right route, or as frequently happens, is not. In days gone by, if an operator used elderly vehicles, perfectly sound, smooth running and ratttle free, the cry would be heard "This is and old boneshaker" when such criticism was totally unwarranted.    Nowadays sadly, as long as the registration number is recent and the value on the operators' books impressive it seems to matter not one iota that within weeks of entering service the rear suspension is non existent, the lack of rigidity in the bodywork has the complete sides flapping visibly, and the thudding and banging is atrocious. - these aspects are not confined to exceptionally bad road surfaces either !!Returning now to the "Purple slugs" in particular - I object to an operator thinking that they can fool me by fitting wheel spts to an ARTICULATED BUS and calling it a "Streetcar." Likewise a bus driver is just that, and is not a PILOT in a COCKPIT. Part of the grand scheme was, of course, for the PILOT to be in sole charge of the flight and that fares would be taken automatically either by street machines (cor blimey this IS law abiding 2010 in the UK) or by machines on the aircraft. Subsequently when it became necessary to patch up the ailing farce by employing further crew members apparently no conductors could be found - but sufficient CUSTOMER SERVICE HOSTS could - only difficulty in finding a suitable catering contractor prevented the serving of "IN FLIGHT" meals. The seating capacity, including the first class lounge, is marginally less than that of a full size single decker. The size of the monsters can regularly be seen causing junction traffic jams - on one occasion a while ago at lunchtime I witnessed two in a line, the rear one blocking the York Street/Market junction completely and bringing everything to a standstill for a good quarter of an hour. Many delighted first floor office workers leaned out of their windows to enjoy the spectacle.The unbelievable purchase price of these aircraft is, I think, £330,000 each - incredible, and work that out per seat compared with any rational bus.As far as the York service number 4 from Acomb to the University goes, it seems that "First" have eaten humble pie to an extent as normal OPO standard vehicles now operate the entire service every evening, and all day on Sundays - to save on crew wages.Before sheltering from an expected bombardment from Streetcar enthusiasts, I must just say "I rest my case mi 'lud."    

[Riponian]

I'm no fan of these slugs either, they are somewhat out of place. If we had payment cards (like the Oyster in London) then these would have had entry gates, effectively self service. Instead we've got conductors under another name. They are too unwieldy for most services and of course are of no use whatsoever in any bus station.In my opinion the finest buses Leeds had are the final batch of AEC Regent V with Chas Roe bodywork.Saying that, I do commute into Leeds on an equally distinctive set of vehicles.

[BLAKEY]

Riponian wrote: Saying that, I do commute into Leeds on an equally distinctive set of vehicles. I remember fondly that the sole "United" car on the 36 service in the good old days seemed by intention to be always operated by the same vehicle, For a long time this was Bristol RE number 6187 (or was it 4187) - THN 887 F - not as exotic as your present day steeds, but eminently sensible nevertheless.

[Uno Hoo]

BLAKEY wrote: Riponian wrote: Saying that, I do commute into Leeds on an equally distinctive set of vehicles. I remember fondly that the sole "United" car on the 36 service in the good old days seemed by intention to be always operated by the same vehicle, For a long time this was Bristol RE number 6187 (or was it 4187) - THN 887 F - not as exotic as your present day steeds, but eminently sensible nevertheless. Could this have been a policy of not "embarrassing" WYRCC by operating an FLF, a type never adopted by Road Car? I know you're talking about an RE, but prior to that type, I only remember UAS fielding LDs and presumably FSs on the 36, types which complemented Road Car's rolling stock. My memory of UAS in its own territory is one of vast numbers of FLFs and fewer FSFs, whereas the LD and FS types were relatively rare. I know Road Car had an unhappy experience with its sole FSF, and I recall your saying it was unreliable, yet surely that can't have been true of the entire classes of forward-entrance Loddekas? The FLF/FSF carried a more modern image, and Scottish Bus Group was eager to swap Fleetlines for them. But Road Car would have none of them. I wonder what the real reason was. The rear entrance buses looked dated against the Atlanteans and Fleetlines of municipal and BET companies. Yes, I know looks weren't everything, but a lot of passengers are swayed by them.

[ex loiner]

Loinerpete wrote: Remember the days before 1974 when we had a proper Bus system?? Real buses, some of which were built here in Leeds at Charles h Roe at Crossgates, running to a timetable that was usually adhered to. Trying not to look through 2 tone green tinted specs here but wern`t us Loiners served better then by our public transport?? Hi LoinerpeteThis bus (which i have driven many a long hour) is what was known as a cheeky bus as there was no paneling to fill in the stairs to the top deck ,just rails .And in the days of mini skirts kept us (male) conductors in happy thoughtsex loiner

[BLAKEY]

Uno Hoo wrote: [I remember fondly that the sole "United" car on the 36 service in the good old days seemed by intention to be always operated by the same vehicle, For a long time this was Bristol RE number 6187 (or was it 4187) - THN 887 F - not as exotic as your present day steeds, but eminently sensible nevertheless. Could this have been a policy of not "embarrassing" WYRCC by operating an FLF, a type never adopted by Road Car? I know you're talking about an RE, but prior to that type, I only remember UAS fielding LDs and presumably FSs on the 36, types which complemented Road Car's rolling stock. My memory of UAS in its own territory is one of vast numbers of FLFs and fewer FSFs, whereas the LD and FS types were relatively rare. I know Road Car had an unhappy experience with its sole FSF, and I recall your saying it was unreliable, yet surely that can't have been true of the entire classes of forward-entrance Loddekas? The FLF/FSF carried a more modern image, and Scottish Bus Group was eager to swap Fleetlines for them. But Road Car would have none of them. I wonder what the real reason was. The rear entrance buses looked dated against the Atlanteans and Fleetlines of municipal and BET companies. Yes, I know looks weren't everything, but a lot of passengers are swayed by them. ............................................................................................................Very interesting memories indeed Uno Hoo and poor old DX 82 most certainly was unreliable and unloved - it provided a fascinating contrast by failing frequently but being the fastest machine around when it did turn up - its no exaggeration to say that it caused an awful lot of lost mileage on WY's only weekday through Leeds - Otley - Ilkley car. Having said that that its only fair to comment that the Lodekkas were ultra reliable in all their forms, and DX 82 was an unexplained exception..Now, time plays great tricks on our memories, and I'm not sure with respect that United single deckers were a contrast by intention to WY's Lodekkas. I seem to recall that from day one of the REs they appeared routinely on 36 Leeds - Ripon WY workings. This of course included the original three pedal "synchromesh" ones which sorted the men from the boys and, in the case of Harrogate depot, the women from the lasses - the first four ladies at Harrogate appeared regularly in Leeds and did very well indeed with the unpredictable and petulant early REs. I put synchromesh in inverted commas because due to the distant gerbox and complex air throttles and clutches those early models were not for the faint hearted, especially with Harewood Bank, Almsford Bank, and other mountains on the A61 to contend with - many an automaobile symphony was composed and performed on those instruments : One of my first dreadul jobs as a reluctant "outside" inspector was to take a passenger census for twelve hours a day at Crescent Gardens (inwards) at Alwoodley. A WY conductor shared this miserable task on behalf of "the opposition." I can't remember the exact reason, but there was some objection by one operator or the other as to who should reap the benefit of carrying the Alwoodley passengers. What I meant to say though is, that by that time (1972/3), when THN 887 F was representing the North East, the WY vehicles were also single deckers in the main if not exclusively, so perhaps it was a joint decision after all ??Our commuter friend from Ripon would have witnessed a magnificent working had he been travellling in those halcyon days. Mondays to fridays the 1715 departure from Vicar Lane to Ripon was duplicated - wait for it - by the East Yorkshire Bridlington OPO bus with West Yorkshire conductor - a home made board in the windscreen declared the immortal "ALWOODLEY X ROADS." Wonderful - although I doubt if the EYMS chaps shared that view !!

[Riponian]

The lone WYRCC FSF was unpopular as the drivers complained about it being noisy, seems the locals had hobnail boots to clomp up and down the stairs.The 36 certainly was RE territory for a very long time, although it went onto "Nasties" afterwards (they were equally exotic ones for Leeds as Metro only ever had 1301) which were universally unloved.I remember the Series 1 RE's when I was in Wetherby, they were always the last ones out and the first ones parked up after peak times. Having the engine so far away and the linkages made changing gears difficult. However we digress, this is an LCT thread.

[BLAKEY]

Riponian wrote: The 36 certainly was RE territory for a very long time, although it went onto "Nasties" afterwards (they were equally exotic ones for Leeds as Metro only ever had 1301) which were universally unloved.However we digress, this is an LCT thread. I'm almost certain that 1301 was diverted from a WYRCC batch as a "taster" for Leeds/Metro. It had high backed seats in fawn plastic type material, with the initial experimental "WY" rose emblem on the headrests. Much of its career was spent on short city routes and it could be heard bellowing and screaming in East Street to and from Cross Green Estate frequently. It ventured forth into the Yorkshire Dales on some kind of Summer Sundays service and, for that purpose, was driven by Jack Chadwick - a senior man from Headingley Depot. For this adventure he was held in awe by the rest of us, and was often wished well at launching time each week by those who feared they might not see him again Well this was the heyday of "kick near the rear number plate to start the thing" and "stand well clear of that terrifying screaming cooling fan." I can't imagine that 1301's generous output of thick black "turbo" diesel smoke did much for the rural beauty of our lovely county !!        

[trophy]

Riponian wrote: The lone WYRCC FSF was unpopular as the drivers complained about it being noisy, seems the locals had hobnail boots to clomp up and down the stairs.The 36 certainly was RE territory for a very long time, although it went onto "Nasties" afterwards (they were equally exotic ones for Leeds as Metro only ever had 1301) which were universally unloved.I remember the Series 1 RE's when I was in Wetherby, they were always the last ones out and the first ones parked up after peak times. Having the engine so far away and the linkages made changing gears difficult. However we digress, this is an LCT thread. perhaps the fact that dx82 was unpopular and unreliable was not completely unrelated .iread a book about halifax transport ,their dennis lolines suffered broken valve gear which was caused by drivers unused to five speeds changing into fourth at speed and overreving the engine .maybe somthing similar was "accidently" happening to dx82.