Coal Mining in East Leeds

[chameleon]

The Parksider wrote: The Parksider wrote: I said....That it crosses the beck leads me to think that this "slag lane" on the west side of the beck ran to a mill on the east side at Foxwood farm. Whoops. Foundry Mill Lane runs on the west side of the beck or warercourse to Foxwood farm ALSO on the west side of the beck or watercourse. The idea is if this lane was to run to a foundry mill then it runs directly to foxwood farm NOT the later foundry mill. History..... would be so much easier to determine if only folk had recorded more! But it is stimulating trying to work it all out - who needs Time Team then!

[The Parksider]

chameleon wrote: The Parksider wrote: The Parksider wrote: I said....That it crosses the beck leads me to think that this "slag lane" on the west side of the beck ran to a mill on the east side at Foxwood farm. Whoops. Foundry Mill Lane runs on the west side of the beck or warercourse to Foxwood farm ALSO on the west side of the beck or watercourse. The idea is if this lane was to run to a foundry mill then it runs directly to foxwood farm NOT the later foundry mill. History..... would be so much easier to determine if only folk had recorded more! But it is stimulating trying to work it all out - who needs Time Team then! Indeed. The old weir and culverted beck with the slag lane alongsides is a fabulous relic of the past that warrants a visit, and that doesn't even fit with the last Foundry Mill a distance away up the hill. Yes all we have is interpretations but I'm happy Grumpytramp is behind ours!!Edmund Bogg "covers" the foundry Mill only to state as you say that the men of industry were too busy "fashioning the implements of war and peace to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" of history" so even the historians of yesteryear got nothing. Of what we do have, as references in modern books to the mill are not researched for the main thrust of those books, but asides. One is a reference to Smeaton designing a system whereby "water was forced" to the waterwheel at the later mill "from a conduit extending from Wyke beck".That would be OK if there was any explanation for the idea (even for a man of even Smeaton's genius) water was pushed uphill all that way. It does however say to me it is likely water supply problems plagued the area from the days of Mathers, and some sort of pump engine re-circ system for dry periods may be more accurate in this case.Other references to a watercourse from a dam running uphill to the latter Foundry Mill don't fit either so in the absence of accurate historical reference in what could be second hand asides from people who may not even have gone near the mill take, take centre stage.It does however go to show that besides the wealth of local history knowledge there's fresh areas to pursue. The local history library, The Thoresby Society and the WYAS beckon for there may be clues there. But a pleasant walk down the beck of my childhood was always preferable. I will pursue this again some day!

[chameleon]

If you consider that the water was the source of energy for some industrious purpose, does it make sense to use more energy to move the water to a higher point - rather more logical to move the industry to the water (as was the case with earlier activities?Chameleon's been a little of colour lately so has been out very much but this seems worth investing time in a walk one day.

[chameleon]

ahhh, just read that back, chameleon - colour. Oh dear, sorry!

[The Parksider]

chameleon wrote: If you consider that the water was the source of energy for some industrious purpose, does it make sense to use more energy to move the water to a higher point - rather more logical to move the industry to the water (as was the case with earlier activities?) To answer that you need your time machine and set it for a visit to see John Smeaton who was the master of energy efficiencies. I have little doubt now that the wyke beck provided direct power to early foundries and that there was a switch to a foundry up the slopes of the valley where water came from tributaries to the wyke.Why that switch happened we don't know (I suspect it was water supply problems), but at some point Smeaton came in to sort both the water supply and wheel. He undertook 48 other similar projects (amongst much larger bridge, lighthouse and harbour projects which made him famous) in which he'd redesign the wheels with cast iron gears and bearings.Relevant to our Foundry Mill he is recorded as designing six "returning engines" at water mills, so he really did by the looks of it invent a coal powered steam engine to push water uphill.But this is the point where the throwaway line? "The wheel used water forced from a conduit extending from the wyke beck at roundhay" and "the project was still in use in the 20th century" doesn't work for me with respect to the source of that line.Smeaton was a genius and also designed dams, so I have no doubt he got every single drop of power from what water there was available, and that there were TWO mill ponds points again to a deliberate attempt to further garner every drop of water possible.If you look references to Smeaton up he is famous for his work on energy efficiency which was groundbreaking and award winning so the logical interpretation of a "returning engine" for me was where he could get no more energy from an improved wheel and dam system, in conjunction with the water supply, due to the water supplies limitations, he would return enough water back to the system above the wheel via a pumping engine and pipework to keep production from stopping.I can only conclude that the "returning engine" may not have been used all the time, and that the running cost was not prohibitive as that cost had to be offset against the cost of the mill running dry and production ceasing.Of course by the time the mill was grinding corn, iron was produced at much more efficient foundries, and was rolling in to Leeds forges by train, so the old Foundry closed due to financial ineffciency in the end???.Try "engineering timeline" for an overview of Smeaton's work on watermills which gives you a real flavour of what he was doing, which doesn't fit at all with forcing water up from the Wyke......As I say wherever those one line comments come from they may have come from commentators that weren't researching Smeaton and may have been gleaned as casual asides from people who may have been nowhere near the mill and even if they had may not have understood the engineering and misinterpreted what was going on.

[raveydavey]

This thread is absolutely fascinating, covering as it does an area where I spent many happy days, months and years playing as a child around Wyke beck and surrounding areas.Keep up the good work as I look forward to reading more.

[chameleon]

raveydavey wrote: This thread is absolutely fascinating, covering as it does an area where I spent many happy days, months and years playing as a child around Wyke beck and surrounding areas.Keep up the good work as I look forward to reading more. Thanks Dacey - it does seem that every time we decide upon something, a further conundrum appears theowing another spanner in the works.Of course, speculation can be adapted to answer any question that is asked, and I do suspect, as Parksider has deduced, that this has happened in the past and may have become understood to be fact and that is something to be cautious of and indeed gives rise to the most difficult element, that of establishing proof.As anyone who has writted a subjective paper will agree, the referencing and creation of a bibliography is mind-numbing - but so helpful to others when they come to review in the future!

[BramleyFettler]

I believe some of the earliest coal mining in Leeds is recorded as being on Seacroft Moor.Is this the area roughly between the ring road and Whinmoor?

[The Parksider]

BramleyFettler wrote: I believe some of the earliest coal mining in Leeds is recorded as being on Seacroft Moor.Is this the area roughly between the ring road and Whinmoor? It is the area between the York Road and the ring road that is now classed as crossgates. Brian Pit is marked on late maps and it was probably "Seacroft Colliery" on seacroft moor. There is a street or two such as Brian view, that mark the main mining area on the moor.

[chameleon]

The Parksider wrote: BramleyFettler wrote: I believe some of the earliest coal mining in Leeds is recorded as being on Seacroft Moor.Is this the area roughly between the ring road and Whinmoor? It is the area between the York Road and the ring road that is now classed as crossgates. Brian Pit is marked on late maps and it was probably "Seacroft Colliery" on seacroft moor. There is a street or two such as Brian view, that mark the main mining area on the moor. The red square here: