Coal Mining in East Leeds

Post by **chameleon** » Sun 11 Jan, 2009 11:56 pm

grumpytramp wrote: I would therefore suggest that the water feeding the mill was from natural drainage and water from a drainage tunnel (sough) draining coal or iron workings. This may have been driven from hillside above the Wyke Beck at a higher elevation to the mill to intersect mine workings. There may have been supplementary pumping underground to the sough (any saving in the total head of water to be pumped by 18th and 19th Century was ruthlessly exploited by mining engineers)Where and what was the mine drain is another question?By the way Mr Eastburn referred to here was Henry Eastburn, the son of Smeaton's sister-in-law Faith, arrived as a pupil in 1768. He was to work with Smeaton for 20 years, settling in Whitkirk after his marriage in 1779. The IGS map shows two shafts about ½ mile east of the mill, one at the junction of Hawkshead Crescent and Duftom Approach, a second in the lower precints of what was Parklands Junior school, both of course higher than the mill site.

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Mon 12 Jan, 2009 12:37 am

The Parksider wrote: You'll have to forgive my dumbness but Smeaton seems to be saying that the ponds run dry of water and an "engine" is used to pump water into the ponds?? NoRemember what the purpose of the mill was at the time ....... it was being used as a foundary. The fact that Smeaton refers to "Seacroft Coke Furnace" leaves me in little doubt that the process that the waterwheel was supporting was a simple blast furnace. The water wheel was driving air bellows blasting air onto the heated coke, limestone and iron ore. The engine was to supplement the wheel when the leat was dry. This is why Smeaton states: Quote: Now, though the average of the four dry months is stated at six hours water, yet it frequently happens, that for three months together the natural supply does not amount to above three hours' water per day; so that without some subsidiary power, this furnace must undoubtedly blow out every summer, and this subsidiary power, I advise, to be a fire-engine, and that a sufficient power to work the furnace at the above rate, independently of the natural supply, for, when the natural supply is too scanty to work the furnace, the engine being set a-going will work till the natural supply has filled the ponds, and then the engine may cease working, and save fuel till the ponds become empty again; or the natural supply may be employed at the boring mill, even at the scarcest time. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/vi ... nace.shtml for a nice animation of the process. The Parksider wrote: You suggest (or does he indicate) the water is from underground mine drainage?? but what route would the flow take???I know of no deep mine in the area save Seacroft Colliery/Brian pit some distance away - would they have driven a drainage level that far? I think it is clear that the water is being sourced from a local sough, as he states at the begining: Quote: The whole rise, as per level taken by Mr. Eastburn, from the tail of the colliery drain to the surface of the mill-pond at a full head, is thirty-three feet four inches, and there is reason to suppose, from observations since made, that, by pursuing Mr. Porter's drain, there will be a loss of level of two feet I dont have answer as to where, suffice to say the valley of the Wyke Beck, would provide an opportunity to drive an adit at a gentle rise to intersect local workings. He could also be referring to the discharge from colliery pumps. Unfortunately the only geological plan I have of the area is the 1:50,000 solid geology which makes it very difficult to even make an educated guess where ........ but I note by way of example a shaft marked somewhere on the south of York Road, half way between York Road's junction with Foundary Lane and the Ring Road (at a guess by Hawkhill Avenue) The Parksider wrote: I'm still foxed by the idea that a culvert was cut from a dam at Dibb Lane, and intrigued by Burt's off map of this??? I suspect that over the period 1577 when this supposedly happened to the end of the mill various ways of obtaining water - more than one - could have occured? I still maintain the fundemental problem here is that a dam at Dib Lane would still be lower than Foundary Mill itself and thats without taking account of the waterwheels 28' overshoot. I have traced the 60m contour on these two OS 1:25000 tiles to demonstrate my point:ooops first one is at the top ...... second to follow!

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Mon 12 Jan, 2009 12:44 am

Second OS sheet

Post by **chameleon** » Mon 12 Jan, 2009 8:28 pm

' but I note by way of example a shaft marked somewhere on the south of York Road, half way between York Road's junction with Foundary Lane and the Ring Road (at a guess by Hawkhill Avenue)'Yes you're right, I noted two shafts in that area to you a few posts above grumpytramp. (The sheets I have are 1:10560 - I wanted more until Idiscovered how much they charge these days!)

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Wed 14 Jan, 2009 8:47 am

grumpytramp wrote: I think it is clear that the water is being sourced from the tail of the colliery drain to the surface of the mill-pond. I don't ave answer as to where, but I note by way of example a shaft marked somewhere at a guess by Hawkhill Avenue. Thank you for your splendid efforts on this and how can you argue with such a source!! Although it kind of answers the question the frustration is....1. Where did the idea of a dam and watercourse in 1577 ever come from.2. How did Burt ever manage to map a watercourse on an 1890's map.3. How come all through the 1800's maps Ross Gill has a T junction and appears to run around a hillside?4. Where was that drain from?More questions than answers, the answer creating more mysteries!!!Any idea (inc chameleon/Hector) what my lifelong mystery of finding green variegated glassy stones amongst industrial slag and cinders may be?Mysteries, mysteries!!

Loiner in Cyprus · Post by **Loiner in Cyprus** » Wed 14 Jan, 2009 8:51 pm

The Parksider wrote: grumpytramp wrote: I think it is clear that the water is being sourced from the tail of the colliery drain to the surface of the mill-pond. I don't ave answer as to where, but I note by way of example a shaft marked somewhere at a guess by Hawkhill Avenue. Thank you for your splendid efforts on this and how can you argue with such a source!! Although it kind of answers the question the frustration is....1. Where did the idea of a dam and watercourse in 1577 ever come from.2. How did Burt ever manage to map a watercourse on an 1890's map.3. How come all through the 1800's maps Ross Gill has a T junction and appears to run around a hillside?4. Where was that drain from?More questions than answers, the answer creating more mysteries!!!Any idea (inc chameleon/Hector) what my lifelong mystery of finding green variegated glassy stones amongst industrial slag and cinders may be?Mysteries, mysteries!! As a child in the 50s I remember finding the 'greeny/blue' glassy material in a field between Potternewton Avenue and Scott Hall Road. I have always wondered what it was so I hope we get an answer.

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Wed 14 Jan, 2009 9:06 pm

[quotenick="Loiner in Cyprus"] The Parksider wrote: grumpytramp wrote: As a child in the 50s I remember finding the 'greeny/blue' glassy material in a field between Potternewton Avenue and Scott Hall Road. I have always wondered what it was so I hope we get an answer. The piece I currently have is from the cinders in the yard of Blakeridge Mill Batley. A piece beforehand I got from the old coal shaft at the top of Oldfield lane.I know my minerals and it is like malachite - a glassy, greeny copper ore with variegations in stripes from light to very dark green The conchoidal fracrure also indicated malachite.However a piece given to a mate at Leeds Uni was tested for copper and nothing!If I had to guess something industrial maybe glass furnaces. I could even find bits in gardens in the seacroft estate although it was usually light green. Intriguing.

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Wed 14 Jan, 2009 9:13 pm

The Parksider wrote: 1. Where did the idea of a dam and watercourse in 1577 ever come from.2. How did Burt ever manage to map a watercourse on an 1890's map.3. How come all through the 1800's maps Ross Gill has a T junction and appears to run around a hillside?4. Where was that drain from? Its a nice wee mystery!Regards 1 - 3, I am struggling as I haven't seen the source material or am sure of the locations. I would be interested in seeing a sketch showing their approximate locations (and even a scan of Burts plan). I am not even sure even which is Ross Gill?Regards 4, when I get a few hours I will attempt to solve that! The Parksider wrote: Any idea (inc chameleon/Hector) what my lifelong mystery of finding green variegated glassy stones amongst industrial slag and cinders may be? Sorry did mean to mention that if it is something that looks vaguely like the piccie above?Then it is furnace slag formed from fused silica, limestone and various impurities. An expert would tell you even what sort of process this came from (Blast furnace, Bessamer, Coke fueled, charcoal fueled etc). It can be an excellent indicator of previous iron working in an area .......... but ......... you need to be cautious in drawing too many conclusions on whether it came from where you find it, as particularly blast furnace slag has been a very popular alternative fill material to quarried rock for construction activities (particularly in the 50s, 60s and 70s)Mysteries, mysteries!!

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 14 Jan, 2009 11:26 pm

Yhis would be easier should you do the decent thing and move down to Leeds grumpytramp I'm without scanner still so I can't help there I'm afraid.

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Fri 16 Jan, 2009 10:56 pm

grumpytramp wrote: The Parksider wrote: 1. Where did the idea of a dam and watercourse in 1577 ever come from.2. How did Burt ever manage to map a watercourse on an 1890's map.3. How come all through the 1800's maps Ross Gill has a T junction and appears to run around a hillside?4. Where was that drain from? Its a nice wee mystery!Regards 1 - 3, I am struggling as I haven't seen the source material or am sure of the locations. I would be interested in seeing a sketch showing their approximate locations (and even a scan of Burts plan). I am not even sure even which is Ross Gill?Regards 4, when I get a few hours I will attempt to solve that! The Parksider wrote: Any idea (inc chameleon/Hector) what my lifelong mystery of finding green variegated glassy stones amongst industrial slag and cinders may be? Sorry did mean to mention that if it is something that looks vaguely like the piccie above?Then it is furnace slag formed from fused silica, limestone and various impurities. An expert would tell you even what sort of process this came from (Blast furnace, Bessamer, Coke fueled, charcoal fueled etc). It can be an excellent indicator of previous iron working in an area .......... but ......... you need to be cautious in drawing too many conclusions on whether it came from where you find it, as particularly blast furnace slag has been a very popular alternative fill material to quarried rock for construction activities (particularly in the 50s, 60s and 70s)Mysteries, mysteries!! Sir, you are indeed the font of all (interesting) knowledge and a genius to boot.Slag fits exactly the pieces I have found over the years, and fits the idea it did not test for copper.Brill GT.........