Lumiere project halted

chamusdarrach · Post by **chamusdarrach** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 1:17 am

Si wrote: raveydavey wrote: chamusdarrach wrote: Well, driving my bus around the city centre today, I noticed that quite a few other, less well known developments appear to have also been put on hold, yesterday I was at the Highroyds Development at Menston, that too, has been put on hold now, indeed the developer has canvassed the neighbours about letting some of the empty apartments to "DSS" tenants, you can imagine how thats gone down with the residents,( who've paid a lot of money for their apartments) and what they think of that idea!!?? Can you imagine that?You've spent a small fortune on your new house an "executive" development, then found out it used to be a mental hospital. This is on top of it taking you an age to get to work in Leeds as the roads simply can't cope with all the additional traffic this and other developments have caused. The trains are no better as they are crammed full and stop everytime the Aire floods at Kirkstall, which seems to be everytime there is heavy rain.Then building work stops and your luxury home is marooned between a building site and a partially demolished mortuary. The credit crunch takes hold and your home is suddenly worth a lot less than you paid for it when you took out your 125% mortgage with Northern Rock. Then the developer rings up and asks if you've any objection to them housing a couple of hundred DSS tenants next door... Also, they're built on a swamp! Yes, really. Before Highroyds was built, the area was marshland. It still floods regularly. I heard somewhere, that some of the new houses had to be underpinned after they were built and before they were sold! Yes, the area does still flood after an hours or so constant rain, just look at the road leading into the site, its always flooded after rainThe proposed shops, nursery etc has been halted, but did you know that every new resident of Highroyds got a free 1 year metrocard, from the developer, as the train was seen as a better than a car, to get into leeds

Brandy · Post by **Brandy** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 2:28 pm

cnosni wrote: chameleon wrote: Another one bite the dust - BBC new site says that Criterion Place has been scrapped, not just postponed!A failure to submitt a suitable planning application is said to be the reason the contract has been terminated, but that it seems, is accredited to the project no longer being financial viable.The speed at which things are going belly-up at the moment does make you wonder how sound they were to start with. Another site for an arena me thinks,knock down BT and the car park,build over and above the railway station (with a link) like the MEN an link up to the NCP car park.Bingo!!! or better still,two new arenas!

Post by **chameleon** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 4:42 pm

Brandy wrote: cnosni wrote: chameleon wrote: Another one bite the dust - BBC new site says that Criterion Place has been scrapped, not just postponed!A failure to submitt a suitable planning application is said to be the reason the contract has been terminated, but that it seems, is accredited to the project no longer being financial viable.The speed at which things are going belly-up at the moment does make you wonder how sound they were to start with. Another site for an arena me thinks,knock down BT and the car park,build over and above the railway station (with a link) like the MEN an link up to the NCP car park.Bingo!!! or better still,two new arenas! Yup, could be a goer with Council backing - think of all that lovely Congestion Charge money they'd rake in with people trying to get to those car parks!

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 8:33 pm

Well Andrew Carter said on the news that economic factors had played their part in the councils decision to cancel the contract,but he added"but also what might be perhaps a development we'd rather like more than what was proposed"Considering the kissing towers were pretty awesome then he is possibly referring to the redesign the developers had submitted.OR he is saying that the whole idea of that particular type of development is not now in the councils mind.So what kind of development could he mean,one they would "rather like more".Well Andrew Carter is a major exponent of an arena,and its fair to say that the arena agenda has been on the slow road.The preferred operator,SMG,have been selected,a year later than was planned.The developer has not yet been selected and the site not yet announced,both of which should have occured last Autumn.Yet tonight in the YEP Andrew Carter says the arena is still on track,and im not surprised if its true that "Experts say a venue capable of staging concerts by global superstars would be worth as much as £28m a year to the Leeds economy.",thats the econmy,not the acts,and the promoters because they keep all the ticket /merchandise sales receipts.There may be a reason for the delay,could be the credit crunch,the careful planning (which im all for) or is it because the council realised they had a site,which was perfect for an arena that had already been allocated,so to speak.The council must have realised that nothing had happened with the site since 2004,not even a mention of potential occupiers of the towers had emerged,which is unusual.Perhaps they realised that the towers werent going to come off,and bided their time with announcing a venue for the arena pending the termination of the Criterion Place contract.To me it would be a natural place for an arena that would benefit the economy and atmosphere of the city.centrally located,next to the railway station (which has plans for a southern entrance),close to all the bars and restaurants etc it would be a great boon to the city,similar to the MEN in Manchester,and unlike the big shed at Birmingham and Sheffield where people turn up in their cars to a location on the edge of the city,go straight in to the venue,and straight home again.The MEN is in the centre,with excellent transport links which encourage people to come into the city and spend money locally,thus improving the economy.They could even call it the Queens Hall,hows that then!!

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 11:06 pm

cnosni wrote: Well Andrew Carter said on the news that economic factors had played their part in the councils decision to cancel the contract,but he added"but also what might be perhaps a development we'd rather like more than what was proposed"Considering the kissing towers were pretty awesome then he is possibly referring to the redesign the developers had submitted.OR he is saying that the whole idea of that particular type of development is not now in the councils mind.So what kind of development could he mean,one they would "rather like more".Well Andrew Carter is a major exponent of an arena,and its fair to say that the arena agenda has been on the slow road.The preferred operator,SMG,have been selected,a year later than was planned.The developer has not yet been selected and the site not yet announced,both of which should have occured last Autumn.Yet tonight in the YEP Andrew Carter says the arena is still on track,and im not surprised if its true that "Experts say a venue capable of staging concerts by global superstars would be worth as much as £28m a year to the Leeds economy.",thats the econmy,not the acts,and the promoters because they keep all the ticket /merchandise sales receipts.There may be a reason for the delay,could be the credit crunch,the careful planning (which im all for) or is it because the council realised they had a site,which was perfect for an arena that had already been allocated,so to speak.The council must have realised that nothing had happened with the site since 2004,not even a mention of potential occupiers of the towers had emerged,which is unusual.Perhaps they realised that the towers werent going to come off,and bided their time with announcing a venue for the arena pending the termination of the Criterion Place contract.To me it would be a natural place for an arena that would benefit the economy and atmosphere of the city.centrally located,next to the railway station (which has plans for a southern entrance),close to all the bars and restaurants etc it would be a great boon to the city,similar to the MEN in Manchester,and unlike the big shed at Birmingham and Sheffield where people turn up in their cars to a location on the edge of the city,go straight in to the venue,and straight home again.The MEN is in the centre,with excellent transport links which encourage people to come into the city and spend money locally,thus improving the economy.They could even call it the Queens Hall,hows that then!! Good points, well made.The Sovereign Street site is an excellent location for an arena. I don't know why there hasn't been a venue there before...oh, hang on...!The arena needs to be IN the city centre, not stuck just off some motorway junction. As has been said, the MEN Arena attracts masses of people directly into the city centre to spend money, whereas at Sheffield you drive there, go to the event and drive out again.We were at the MEN Arena on Monday night and in addition to the gig, decided to stay over to avoid driving back that night and the usual half past midnight arrival back home.So there were the tickets, hotel room, a meal and a couple of drinks apiece before the gig, etc all spent in the local economy. Imagine that multiplied by the 12,000 people who were at the performance. And that is just one nights revenue. Getting the right location is literally worth millions to the city.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 11:07 pm

Ooops, double post!!!

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 19 Jul, 2008 11:48 pm

raveydavey wrote: cnosni wrote: Well Andrew Carter said on the news that economic factors had played their part in the councils decision to cancel the contract,but he added"but also what might be perhaps a development we'd rather like more than what was proposed"Considering the kissing towers were pretty awesome then he is possibly referring to the redesign the developers had submitted.OR he is saying that the whole idea of that particular type of development is not now in the councils mind.So what kind of development could he mean,one they would "rather like more".Well Andrew Carter is a major exponent of an arena,and its fair to say that the arena agenda has been on the slow road.The preferred operator,SMG,have been selected,a year later than was planned.The developer has not yet been selected and the site not yet announced,both of which should have occured last Autumn.Yet tonight in the YEP Andrew Carter says the arena is still on track,and im not surprised if its true that "Experts say a venue capable of staging concerts by global superstars would be worth as much as £28m a year to the Leeds economy.",thats the econmy,not the acts,and the promoters because they keep all the ticket /merchandise sales receipts.There may be a reason for the delay,could be the credit crunch,the careful planning (which im all for) or is it because the council realised they had a site,which was perfect for an arena that had already been allocated,so to speak.The council must have realised that nothing had happened with the site since 2004,not even a mention of potential occupiers of the towers had emerged,which is unusual.Perhaps they realised that the towers werent going to come off,and bided their time with announcing a venue for the arena pending the termination of the Criterion Place contract.To me it would be a natural place for an arena that would benefit the economy and atmosphere of the city.centrally located,next to the railway station (which has plans for a southern entrance),close to all the bars and restaurants etc it would be a great boon to the city,similar to the MEN in Manchester,and unlike the big shed at Birmingham and Sheffield where people turn up in their cars to a location on the edge of the city,go straight in to the venue,and straight home again.The MEN is in the centre,with excellent transport links which encourage people to come into the city and spend money locally,thus improving the economy.They could even call it the Queens Hall,hows that then!! Good points, well made.The Sovereign Street site is an excellent location for an arena. I don't know why there hasn't been a venue there before...oh, hang on...!The arena needs to be IN the city centre, not stuck just off some motorway junction. As has been said, the MEN Arena attracts masses of people directly into the city centre to spend money, whereas at Sheffield you drive there, go to the event and drive out again.We were at the MEN Arena on Monday night and in addition to the gig, decided to stay over to avoid driving back that night and the usual half past midnight arrival back home.So there were the tickets, hotel room, a meal and a couple of drinks apiece before the gig, etc all spent in the local economy. Imagine that multiplied by the 12,000 people who were at the performance. And that is just one nights revenue. Getting the right location is literally worth millions to the city. Thats what we do if not going back on the train.Either way we have a few (Ha!) drinks and a meal which is money into local businesses,which means jobs,which means benefits for all.The beauty of a 12000 seat arena in the Leeds centre over the MEN is that it is more likely to sell out (the majority of artists cannot sell out the MEN)and have the associated atmosphere this brings that artists/bands prefer,and this may well mean that the majority of touring artists will elect to play a full 12000 arena than a half empty 21000 arena.I know when ive been to the MEN on occasions when its not sold out,and the atmosphere pales into insignificance in comparison to say a full St Georges Hall in Bradford.Anyway this is all conjecture,and ill believe we have ana arena when i can once again leave the Whitelocks and make my way to a large gig in Leeds,something ive not done since about 86,i think.

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 28 Oct, 2008 7:36 pm

There's renewed activity at the Lumiere site with a few machines working. Not that work has restarted, quite the contrary - they are removing the concrete hard standing upon which the portacabins stood, presumably to return Wellington Street to its full width. Perhaps the intermission is going to be a little longer than first suggested.

jonleeds · Post by **jonleeds** » Wed 29 Oct, 2008 1:50 pm

Is this true? Are the council actually going to be buying up these unlet / empty 'luxury' inner city apartments (Luminere tower et al) and letting them to council tenants? If so where do I put my name down? I cant believe that the developers even believed that the amount of developments they have built would ever all be filled by £2000+ per calendar month tenants! Surely if you can afford that for rent, you wouldnt be renting in the first place!!! Most of these developments, for example City Island were planned and built during the property boom and the 'apartments' were bought by speculative investors, the majority of whom were house owners who thought their ship had come in as their house was suddenly worth three time what they paid for it, so using this 'equity' they invested in buying a second property, and opted to buy one of these city centre apartments in the belief that they would be raking in lucrative rent from tenants that would have such well paid jobs that they wouldnt care that £2000 per month paid in rent out of their wages was 'dead money'. Now this investment potential might have worked to a certain scale but as property developers are greedy and rich they are obsessed with getting even richer - even at the expense of other people, so they conned ordinary people who fancied a punt in the property market, who were no doubt encouraged by the plethora of TV programmes (Escape to the country, Grand Designs, Location Location Location etc) into getting second mortgages on these luxury riverside flats which were bound to be a great investment / pension. Now the s**t has hit the fan the developers are laughing all the way to the bank and many people who own these flats cant get a tenant nor pay off the mortgage they took out on a flat that has halved in value. Greed motivated this fiasco and from the financial mess the world is in it is greed that has been the undoing of the whole system. How could the property prices just keep going up and up and up? They couldnt. Its not right that property prices go up so much that the average working person cannot afford a home yet people who already had a home could buy second properties to exploit people who were forced out of the property market because of high prices. It seems that anyone who was greedy enough to try this method of making money out of second / third properties has now (hopefully) got egg on their face and with a bit of luck be facing losing their own property. Unfortunately the Leeds skyline now looks like lego land due to all the mickey mouse 'modern' architecture that has been thrown up. No doubt in 20 or so years time these high rise apartment blocks will look as ugly as some of the 1960s council flats look now.

Post by **chameleon** » Wed 29 Oct, 2008 3:44 pm

'Is this true? Are the council actually going to be buying up these unlet / empty 'luxury' inner city apartments (Luminere tower et al) and letting them to council tenants?'This happened back in the 70's didn't it ? I'm sure I remember unsold parts of small developopments being bought up and let by the council.