Unidentified pub

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 2:05 pm

Nope not a naval ensign, affectionately known as dusters. The red ensign is merchant navy and the white is the St Georges flag with the Union flag in the top flagstaff corner and is the Royal Navy. In both cases the union flag is just under a quarter of the flag. In this case it appears to be a sixth. Also as Tasa says it appears to heve British Legion written accors the middle and being sepia we can only speculate on the colour.

simonm · Post by **simonm** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 2:38 pm

Ah well, thats me out, just a thought!!

Si · Post by Si » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 2:55 pm

tyke bhoy wrote: Nope not a naval ensign, affectionately known as dusters. The red ensign is merchant navy and the white is the St Georges flag with the Union flag in the top flagstaff corner and is the Royal Navy. In both cases the union flag is just under a quarter of the flag. In this case it appears to be a sixth. Also as Tasa says it appears to heve British Legion written accors the middle and being sepia we can only speculate on the colour. There is also a blue ensign for Royal Mail Ships, as carried on the stern of the RMS Titanic.The flag in the photo could even be yellow, as I think that colour shows up darker on old B&W film.PS Do we know for sure that it's a Hunslet pub? The post on Yorkshire Indexers says "I think it was taken in Hunslet." Could it be the Hunslet British Legion on a trip elsewhere, and not necessarily Leeds?

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 3:17 pm

Has anyone tried looking at the notice, in the left window, with a magnifying glass( will that work???). I have tried enlarging that section but it's pixelating.

Si · Post by Si » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 3:30 pm

No, I can't make it out, Chris.Do we know when it was taken? Judging by the fashions (wing-collar, cloche and bowler hats, centre partings, etc) I'd guess early 1930s. Bearing in mind that the ages of the men looks to be mostly 40s and 50s, does this mean they are veterans of the Boer War, as they'd be too old for the Great War? Could be wrong, as I suppose fashions didn't progress much during the Second World War, in which case they are probably Great War veterans.

String o' beads · Post by **String o' beads** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 4:43 pm

Those carvings above the door and windows interest me. Sickles? I wonder if the pub had a name that was farming or industry related?Regarding the flag - it does resemble the British Legion flag a little. Perhaps a home made version? The words 'straws' and 'clutching' spring to mind. You'd think someone would have created an Ind Coope nostalgia website by now wouldn't you? Tuh.

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 5:17 pm

Googled "British Legion" +flag and it shows images of a blue ensign with a yellow stripe in the middle and yellow "tassles". Also on those images and according to wikipedia British Legion and the branch name is in the yellow stripe. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_flags>The Window to the left (as we look) looks like sickles above it to me but not the door or other window.A bit of research suggests Ind coope disappeared as an entity when Allied Breweries formed in 1959 though its name still lives on in a beer brewed by Carlsberg Tetley who subsumed Allied in 1992. Ind Coope was certainly around before the 30s as in 1934 it merged to become Ind Coope & Allsopp. Plenty of memrobilia out there but not much evidence of a list of any of its tied houses.

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 5:32 pm

Si wrote: No, I can't make it out, Chris.Do we know when it was taken? Judging by the fashions (wing-collar, cloche and bowler hats, centre partings, etc) I'd guess early 1930s. Bearing in mind that the ages of the men looks to be mostly 40s and 50s, does this mean they are veterans of the Boer War, as they'd be too old for the Great War? Could be wrong, as I suppose fashions didn't progress much during the Second World War, in which case they are probably Great War veterans. The majority are wearing their medals too.

sundowner · Post by **sundowner** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 7:58 pm

Si wrote: No, I can't make it out, Chris.Do we know when it was taken? Judging by the fashions (wing-collar, cloche and bowler hats, centre partings, etc) I'd guess early 1930s. Bearing in mind that the ages of the men looks to be mostly 40s and 50s, does this mean they are veterans of the Boer War, as they'd be too old for the Great War? Could be wrong, as I suppose fashions didn't progress much during the Second World War, in which case they are probably Great War veterans. Hi Si They say on the thread that this came from. The picture was taken after the Second World War if this is the case it would be 1939/1945 i should think. Some look a bit old so they may have been in both World Wars .

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 8:24 pm

The medals that most of these lads (?) are wearing are first world war medals, "Pip, Squeak and Wilfred". The Campaign Star, The War Medal and The Victory Medal. That would tie in with the picture being taken in the Thirties but I think later, nearer the war.It looks a bit chilly as they've all got their coats on; so a winter Sunday afternoon? The event was obviously worth dressing up for as they're all suited and booted.There are no young men in the picture but I don't think it's war time as the pub doesn't seem to have any blackout curtains and the windows aren't taped.One of the chaps is circled. Is that the landlord, William Bonner? The only William Bonner I can find was born in South-east leeds in 1911 so he'd be old enough to run a pub by the late thirties. There was a Bonner family of Boot makers in Stanningley in my 1911 Kelly's and a George Bonner, a barman, in Headingley.I've been trying to work out which way we're facing. The shadow of the pub sign is well defined and at a fairly flat angle so it could be mid-afternoon. That being the case, the Sun is shining over the photographer's right shoulder and if you looked directly at the Sun you would be looking South-west. That means that the pub faces due West. Conversley, if the picture was taken in the morning, it would face due East but pubs didn't open in the morning. OK, old maps out.What are the dark rosettes that the ladies and some of the men are wearing? It's not a funeral, there would be more couples and not all the men are wearing black ties (unforgiveable then.)I'm not convinced that the flag says British Legion, I'm not even sure it says British. Beulah? Nah, the more I look at that B the more it looks like a K. Kings something?An earlier post suiggested that the flag could be yellow as old film didn't record that very well. They had panchromatic film in the thirties so all colours were treated equally badly, i.e. grey. It could be gold or equally claret. No telling.Only three women? Odd.