Family History in Leeds

icecube · Post by **icecube** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 12:15 am

Hi Si, Could you please explain when on about Armistead you said the wife Margaret was born in Cottonworth where is that and it said in brackets (sic) could you please tell me what it stands for once again thanks. Thank You Chris

Si · Post by Si » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 8:46 am

Hi Chris,The information available on Ancestry is the original Victorian handwritten documents copied from returns made by each house occupant on the day of the Census. Due to poor transcribing, bad handwriting and/or illiteracy, these forms may contain mistakes. Margaret's birthplace is written down as "Cottonworth" in 1891 and "Cottingworth" in 1901. I've never heard of this/these place(s) and so I've added "sic" at the end. This indicates the mistake is someone else's. Sic is a standard way to show this, and is probably Latin. Cottonworth/Cottingworth could possibly be Cottingley or Collingworth. Cheers,Si.

Si · Post by Si » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 8:59 am

Hello again, Chris,I've just Googled "sic" and it is Latin meaning "thus," "so," "as such," or "just as that." It should be italicised and placed in square brackets [ ], apparently! It is used to show that a quotation has been copied as the original, and any mistakes are not a transcription error. Hope that clears it up!Si

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:36 am

icecube wrote: Hi Si, Could you please explain when on about Armistead you said the wife Margaret was born in Cottonworth where is that and it said in brackets (sic) could you please tell me what it stands for once again thanks. Thank You Chris Hi icecube,i think ive solved your Cottonworth/Cottingwith problem.a search on Genuki gives this"EAST COTTINGWITH, in the parish of Aughton, and wapentake of Harthill; 2¼ miles N. of Aughton, 9 miles NE. of Selby. Here is a Chapel of Ease, of which the Rev. John Fox, is incumbent; likewise a Friends Meeting-house and Methodist chapel. Pop. 308." "WEST COTTINGWITH, in the township of Thorganby with West Cottingwith and parish of Thorganby, wapentake of Ouse and Derwent; ¼ mile NNE. of Thorganby, 8 miles from Selby, 10 from Howden, 11 from York. --Pop. included in Thorganby. (West Cottingwith is now a part of Thorganby and not shown on Landranger maps - CH 2001)" So you have two possible places,both within a few miles of each other,to the east/north east of Selby.By the way Genuki is excellent,you will use it im sure,click on the link below and save it to your favourites.http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/As you can see by the links at the top you also have coverage for England and Wales for Parish registers,general info,some census,in fact all sorts.I think the Yorkshire pages are (luckily) the best and most comprehensive of the entire site

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 12:19 pm

Ok i think i may have the marriage for John Armistead and MargaretYorkshire BMD shows a marriage at St Philips,Wellington Street Leeds in 1880 between a John Armstead (notice the missing letter) and Margaret Tate.This marriage was registered at Leeds qtr jul-sep 1880 GRO ref 9b 611.A check of the 1871 census does show a Margaret Tate born circa 1858 in East Collingworth.She is in Leeds,18 Castle Street,census ref RG10; Piece: 4567; Folio: 101 (these numbers are important,always make a note of them to find the cenus details again in the future,they also act as your "source"The return shows (with all place spellings sic)William Tate,head,Mar,41,Porter, b East CollingtonSarah Tate,wife, Mar,42, b Seaton RossThomas Tate,son ,14, b East CollingtonMARGARET Tate,dtr ,13, b East CollingtonWilliam Tate , son , 8 b East CollingtonCaroline Tate , dtr, , 2, b LeedsThe beauty of this is that we know that in the 1861 census this Margaret should have been in her place of birth ,as brother William was born 5 years later in the same place,this doesnt always mean that Margaret would have been in her place of birth in the 1861 census but it does make it a likely hood.Because of this we should have an accurate spelling for her place of birth,so lets look at the 1861 cenus.Well it would appear that we do have her living in..............................East Cottingwith!!The 1861 census,RG9; Piece: 3559; Folio: 9 shows:-living at Mill HouseWilliam Tate,head,Mar,31, Miller and Farmer of 9 acres b CottingwithHannah Tate,wife,Mar,28 b CottingwithThomas Tate,son, 4, b CottingwithMARGARET ,dtr, 3, b CottingwithJohn Tate ,son, 1, b CottingwithEsther Tate,sister,unm,17, b CottingwithSo there you go,that looks pretty good to me,The place name and rough year of birth equates well to the 1891 and 1901 census,baring in mind the mix up with the spellings of place names.This can be confirmed by first of all ordering the birth certificate of one of the children of John Armistead and his wife Margaret (probably best its the one you are descended from).This will have the maiden name of the mother.If this is indeed Tate,then one more piece of evidence is needed,that is the details of the marriage of John Armstead and Margaret Tate in 1880.You can either order the certificate or spend half an hour at Leeds Central Library,going through the marriages at St Philips on Wellington St that occured between July and September 1880.This will provide you with all sorts of information,but most importantly it provides the names of both the brides and grooms fathers.This would then confirm if Margaret is the Margaret Tate in the 1861 and 1871 census.Heres a tip,print off what Si and I have put on here for you,you will find it easier to refer to.

ceejaylufc · Post by **ceejaylufc** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 12:44 pm

[quotenick="Si"]Hello, Icecube,First of all, I subscribed to Ancestry.co.uk (however, it costs.) On this site you will find the UK Census results for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901, plus other useful stuff. [quote]All of my history is from Ancestry.com and the best thing I have done is buy a subscription to that - I subscribe month by month so if I want to finish, I gave 30 days notice. Admittedly, some of their "transcriptions" are slightly askew but the basic is there for you. I also use Yorkshire Births, Deaths and Marriages which is brill and they have sister sites as well - I have also been using the Staffordshire one for digging out one of my relatives so look on those sites as well - they are completely free which is good.Happy family history hunting Ice Cube - its all worth it in the end

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 1:38 pm

Just another thing,not sure if you noticed but William Tate in the 1861 census has a different wife in the 1871 census,so Margarets mother must have died 1861-1871,with her father remarrying.There is a marriage at Aughton,the Parish that East Cottingwith comes under of a William Tate,to HANNAH DAY 19 MAR 1855. This is the person that you are more than likely descended from.There is a baptism at Aughton to match the details on the 1855 marriage and the 1861 census with HANNAH DAY Christening: 01 JUL 1832 Aughton Near Selby,parents John and Mary Day This Hannah would seem to appear in the 1851 census in East Cottingwith ref HO107; Piece: 2357; Folio: 178,living with maternal grandparents John and Mary GILL.Hannah brother William is also in the household ,as well as uncle Thomas Gill.Ok,i could and have dug some more,but i think you need to concentrate on one thing at a time,im sure Si would agree.Follow the tip of ordering a birth certificate for a child of John Armistead and Margaret,then if it shows the mothers maiden name to be Tate,then look into the 1880 marriage of John ARMSTEAD (note the spelling for ordering the certificate) and Margaret Tate at St Philps in july to September 1880.or alternatively look up the parish registers at Leeds (we can give you tips on that if you decided to do this)If the name of the brides father is William TAte,then Bobs your Aunties live in lover.(If i was a betting man id say that the likelyhood of all this coming true is as high as 95%)

icecube · Post by **icecube** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 4:47 pm

Hi Ceejaylufc, Thank you for post very helpfull found a lot on yorkshire site still looking lol if you could give me any info on Darby family Leeds would be gratefull just starting this family tree and finding it hard but will stick at it my othet two helpers are Si and Cnosni my two new friends lol. Thank You Chris

icecube · Post by **icecube** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 4:52 pm

Hi Cnosni, I will be seeing my dad later im sure he once mentioned the name Tate so i think you are right what you said in last post. Do you think i should stick to the Darby name first because thats my dads dad and do his mothers Armistead later at the moment im like a sponge taking it all in lol. Thank You Chris

icecube · Post by **icecube** » Thu 17 Jul, 2008 4:55 pm

Hi Si, Yes thank you clears it up i sent cnosni post asking if i should just stick to my dads dad Darby first then do his mums later what do you think, cheers. Thank You Chris