Family History in Leeds

Hats Off · Post by **Hats Off** » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 1:49 pm

Si wrote: Hats Off wrote: Hi all, hoping for a little luck with this one. Continuing from my earlier thread could someone please lookup 1891 census (Leeds) forJames Hart aged about 66 born in IrelandWinifred Hart (wife) aged about 63 born in IrelandAnd anyone living with them. In 1881 they were living in Vienna street in Leeds so I am hoping that if they were still alive that they would be in Leeds.Cheers. Hi Hats Off,In 1891 James (58,) Winifred (62,) Martin (34) and Mary Ann Hart (9, grandaughter) were living at 7 Hound Court, NE Leeds. They were all born in Ireland except Mary Ann (Leeds.)James's occupation is written as "scavenger" and Martin as "soap maker."I can't find Hound Court on the 1908 map, but there's a Hound Street (back-to-backs) running north off the east end of High Street (Quarry Hill.) I'm guessing Hound Court is the yard at the back. This will now be under the DSS building.Hope that's useful. Do you want me to check the 1901 Census?Cheers,Si. Cheers for the info Si, you are probably right about Hound Court being the yard behind Hound Street. If you don't mind looking on the 1901 that would be great.Cheers.

Si · Post by Si » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 2:06 pm

Hello again, Hats Off.Here are the results of the 1901 Census:James is still at 7 Hound Court, but now a widower, I'm afraid. His age is given as 70, and he is now working as a corporation labourer (road) - at 70!!! Living with him are James Hart, son, single, aged 49, a cloth finisher, and Mary Ruddy, his niece, aged 23, single, and working as their housekeeper. She was also born in Ireland.The placing of Hound Court is correct, because (for some reason) it says at the top of the Census page "96 & 98 Charles Street same as at High Street." Charles Street was at the other end of Hound Street, so it's the same area. Incidentally, my great great great uncle ran the Pine Apple pub on High Street at this time. There's a picture of him outside his pub on page 26 of the Leeds Lost Pubs thread. Drapesy posted it from Leodis.Cheers, Si.

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 2:16 pm

Hello unclemichaelHave looked at the census details you gave me and the 1891 census appears to say that Frances is 9 years old.The 1901 census shows that both Frances and father Benjamin are born in Bramley.There is a birth registered oct-dec 1882 Bramley 9b 345,this i would think belongs to this Frances.As for Frances Alice there is a birth recorded at Coventry apr-jun 1882 9d 528.You may have to bite the bullet here and order the certificate for Frances in Bramley.Before you do is it possible to find out the birth date of your Frances Alice,ie it may be on the gravestone,assuming that you know where she is buried.Chris

uncle michael · Post by **uncle michael** » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 6:15 pm

cnosni wrote: Hello unclemichaelHave looked at the census details you gave me and the 1891 census appears to say that Frances is 9 years old.The 1901 census shows that both Frances and father Benjamin are born in Bramley.There is a birth registered oct-dec 1882 Bramley 9b 345,this i would think belongs to this Frances.As for Frances Alice there is a birth recorded at Coventry apr-jun 1882 9d 528.You may have to bite the bullet here and order the certificate for Frances in Bramley.Before you do is it possible to find out the birth date of your Frances Alice,ie it may be on the gravestone,assuming that you know where she is buried.Chris Chris. Thanks for your reply. Correct me if I am wrong but ordering the birth certificate would not prove anything. We allready know the fathers name (re wedding cert) and the mothers name via thecencus. Ordering the certificate from Coventry would tell us the fathers name for that Frances Alice. Re the grave stone or cremation I wouldn't known where to start. Frances Alice died at North Bierley hospital Cleckheaton and lived at Ravensthorpe at the time of her death Thank You Michael

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 11:55 pm

uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: Hello unclemichaelHave looked at the census details you gave me and the 1891 census appears to say that Frances is 9 years old.The 1901 census shows that both Frances and father Benjamin are born in Bramley.There is a birth registered oct-dec 1882 Bramley 9b 345,this i would think belongs to this Frances.As for Frances Alice there is a birth recorded at Coventry apr-jun 1882 9d 528.You may have to bite the bullet here and order the certificate for Frances in Bramley.Before you do is it possible to find out the birth date of your Frances Alice,ie it may be on the gravestone,assuming that you know where she is buried.Chris Chris. Thanks for your reply. Correct me if I am wrong but ordering the birth certificate would not prove anything. We allready know the fathers name (re wedding cert) and the mothers name via thecencus. Ordering the certificate from Coventry would tell us the fathers name for that Frances Alice. Re the grave stone or cremation I wouldn't known where to start. Frances Alice died at North Bierley hospital Cleckheaton and lived at Ravensthorpe at the time of her death Thank You Michael Well this is why i suggested finding out her possible birth date as opposed to year.The year can be muddled up but usually the day and the month is accurate.If you had this and then ordered the certificate and the birth day and month matched then it would look pretty good.But if you dont know where she is buried then clearly you will be struggling.Its unfortunate for you that she has such a common surname,it just doesnt help does it!!Anyway good luck,let me know if i can help any more.Chris

Briggy · Post by **Briggy** » Thu 03 Jul, 2008 11:52 am

Could I ask for some advice please? I've very little idea about family history, but having found our family bible which contains some interesting info have decided to try and pursue it. Problem is I'm confused! The bible says Job Sowden married Hadassah Kitson, both from Hunslet They are both listed as being born in 1847, she in April, he in September. Many years ago I saw their marriage entry in Dewsbury Parish Church, August 1871. He was recorded as being 21 and she 26 (giving him a birth year of 1850 and her 1845). On Genes Reunited I found a match and as other information tallies it must be the same pair, but he is listed as being born 1853 and she in 1855! I have contacted the owner of the tree to ask where this information came from and am awaiting a reply. I can't seem to find them on any census, but as I said, I'm not very sure that I'm looking in the right place. Could anyone give me a clue as to how find out which info is accurate please?

uncle michael · Post by **uncle michael** » Thu 03 Jul, 2008 1:16 pm

Briggy wrote: Could I ask for some advice please? I've very little idea about family history, but having found our family bible which contains some interesting info have decided to try and pursue it. Problem is I'm confused! The bible says Job Sowden married Hadassah Kitson, both from Hunslet They are both listed as being born in 1847, she in April, he in September. Many years ago I saw their marriage entry in Dewsbury Parish Church, August 1871. He was recorded as being 21 and she 26 (giving him a birth year of 1850 and her 1845). On Genes Reunited I found a match and as other information tallies it must be the same pair, but he is listed as being born 1853 and she in 1855! I have contacted the owner of the tree to ask where this information came from and am awaiting a reply. I can't seem to find them on any census, but as I said, I'm not very sure that I'm looking in the right place. Could anyone give me a clue as to how find out which info is accurate please? Briggy 1891 cencus Job sowden aged 41 born Pudsey occupation dyer Hadassah Sowden aged 43 born Hunslet Alban aged 1 born Batley Amy G aged 11 " Clement aged 13 " Rachael LH aged 5 " Wilfred aged 9 " Living at 14 Victoria Road, DewsburyI will be back with more (slow at typing) Regards Michael

Briggy · Post by **Briggy** » Thu 03 Jul, 2008 2:24 pm

Uncle Michael - thank you SO much for this info. I've been twiddling about for ages and you've found them in an instant!! The baby Alban was my grandfather (never met him as he died when my dad was young). Many thanks once again. Just out of interest, have you any idea why they would have filled in the bible entry (I'm assuming they did it because it's written in beautiful copperplate writing) with one date for their births, but given conflicting info when they were married, which again doesn't seem to have been the truth according to the info you've just provided?

uncle michael · Post by **uncle michael** » Thu 03 Jul, 2008 2:55 pm

[quotenick="uncle michael"] Briggy wrote: Could I ask for some advice please? I've very little idea about family history, but having found our family bible which contains some interesting info have decided to try and pursue it. Problem is I'm confused! The bible says Job Sowden married Hadassah Kitson, both from Hunslet They are both listed as being born in 1847, she in April, he in September. Many years ago I saw their marriage entry in Dewsbury Parish Church, August 1871. He was recorded as being 21 and she 26 (giving him a birth year of 1850 and her 1845). On Genes Reunited I found a match and as other information tallies it must be the same pair, but he is listed as being born 1853 and she in 1855! I have contacted the owner of the tree to ask where this information came from and am awaiting a reply. I can't seem to find them on any census, but as I said, I'm not very sure that I'm looking in the right place. Could anyone give me a clue as to how find out which info is accurate please? Briggy 1891 cencus Job sowden aged 41 born Pudsey occupation dyer Hadassah Sowden aged 43 born Hunslet Alban aged 1 born Batley Amy G aged 11 " Clement aged 13 " Rachael LH aged 5 " Wilfred aged 9 " Living at 14 Victoria Road, DewsburyI will be back with more (slow at typing) Regards Michael Briggy 1861 cencus Ruben sowden aged 21 head Emma Sowden aged 21 wife Hannah Sowden aged16 sister Christina Sowden aged 14 sister Job Sowden aged 12 brother George Sowden aged 1 son Living at 212a Peel Street,Dewsbury Could be a coincedence but living next door or another part of the house at 212 Christopher Sowden aged 22 head Jane Sowden aged 21 wife 1871 cencus Sarah Sowden aged 61 widow Job Sowden aged 21 occupation dyer Hannah Sowden aged 25 daughter Hannah Sowden aged 5 grandaughter Living at 217 Peel Street,Dewsbury 1901 cencus Job Sowden aged 48 Fish Salesman Wilfred aged 19 son Dyers Labourer Lilian aged 15 daughter Allan aged 11 son Living at 13 Grattan Street,West Leeds. n.b. Allan was transcibed as Alban on 1891 cencus Had no look with 1881 cencus Regards Michael