Family History in Leeds

Post by **cnosni** » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 1:16 am

uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: Anyone help please? Looking for my grandmothers birth. She was born Frances Alice Smith (circa 1881). Married William Henry White at Hunslet at 05/03/1904. Frances died 05/10/1957 at Spenborough (Yorkshire) Thanks Michael Hello MichaelWhat were the names of Frances parents?and do you have her in any of the census? Thanks for reply. On Frances wedding cert her father is stated as Benjamin Smith (deceased). His occupation was a commercial traveller. At the time of the marriage (1904) she was living at 6 Belmont Crescent Hunslet. The only birth certs that might fit is one in Kidderminster in 1881 and one in Bethnal Green in the same year. I have looked at cencus for 81,91 and 1901 but nothing seems to fit. Hope you can help. Thanks Michael Hello MichaelIm sorry for the delay in replying but ive been a bit tied up recently.How old is Frances on the wedding certificate?

Post by **cnosni** » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 1:24 am

Lilysmum wrote: cnosni wrote: Lilysmum wrote: I have hit a brick wall with my family history and it's doing my head in! My GG Grandfather Moses Wilkinson Mann born Leeds North in 1852 shows up on all the relevant cencuses up to 1901 living in the Burmantofts area(he died in1910) except the 1871,I'm now wondering if he may have been in the army at this time or even worse in prison? Can anyone shed any light on how I could find out,and fill in the gap.I would be most grateful for any help on this. Well you may have aproblem here because i have some relaives who should also have been in Burmantofts in 1871 and i cant find them either.Perhaps theres some sections missing.Have you tried looking for his parents in the 1871 census? Yes I have found his mother who was widowed by then and also his grandparents George and Mary Locker, but no Moses? He was unmarried and living with his grandmother on the 1881 cencus so wherever he disappeared to on the 1871 is a mystery Hello LilysmumApologies for the delay in replying.Ive also checked the 1871 census on both Ancestry and Findmy past.There appears to be no match for Moses on either.Frankly he could be absolutely anywhere,as you have mentioned he could have been in the army,in prison or even abroad.I have two or three instances in my own tree where someone goes to America for a while and then comes back (they return usually with a child born in America shown on a subsequent census.Sometimes you have to settle with what you have,which is pretty good in your case because you have his birth and his death,so you can be pretty sure of all the events in between those years for a Moses Wilkinson Mann to be connected to yours.sorry i couldnt find anything else

sundowner · Post by **sundowner** » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 9:46 am

Si wrote: Yes, it was a bit grim, Hats Off. Interesting to notice a block of Glasgow-style tennements (unless it's a mill.) It was not a mill you are right they are tennements i remember them very well they were there when i moved to Saxton Gardens in fifty nine.

Si · Post by Si » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 10:12 am

Thanks, Sundowner. I thought that's what they looked like.

Lilysmum · Post by **Lilysmum** » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 11:24 am

cnosni wrote: Lilysmum wrote: cnosni wrote: Lilysmum wrote: I have hit a brick wall with my family history and it's doing my head in! My GG Grandfather Moses Wilkinson Mann born Leeds North in 1852 shows up on all the relevant cencuses up to 1901 living in the Burmantofts area(he died in1910) except the 1871,I'm now wondering if he may have been in the army at this time or even worse in prison? Can anyone shed any light on how I could find out,and fill in the gap.I would be most grateful for any help on this. Well you may have aproblem here because i have some relaives who should also have been in Burmantofts in 1871 and i cant find them either.Perhaps theres some sections missing.Have you tried looking for his parents in the 1871 census? Yes I have found his mother who was widowed by then and also his grandparents George and Mary Locker, but no Moses? He was unmarried and living with his grandmother on the 1881 cencus so wherever he disappeared to on the 1871 is a mystery Hello LilysmumApologies for the delay in replying.Ive also checked the 1871 census on both Ancestry and Findmy past.There appears to be no match for Moses on either.Frankly he could be absolutely anywhere,as you have mentioned he could have been in the army,in prison or even abroad.I have two or three instances in my own tree where someone goes to America for a while and then comes back (they return usually with a child born in America shown on a subsequent census.Sometimes you have to settle with what you have,which is pretty good in your case because you have his birth and his death,so you can be pretty sure of all the events in between those years for a Moses Wilkinson Mann to be connected to yours.sorry i couldnt find anything else Thanks for taking the time to check Moses out for me,as you say his absence from the 1871 cencus will probably remain a mystery.My Grandad always said he died in 1910 as a result of the injuries he had recieved in the Boer war,but somehow that doesn't add up,as I think he would have been too old and also his childrens ages show that he was around at the time of the Boer war (unless there are other family secrets to uncover!!!)

Hats Off · Post by **Hats Off** » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 5:28 pm

Hi all, hoping for a little luck with this one. Continuing from my earlier thread could someone please lookup 1891 census (Leeds) forJames Hart aged about 66 born in IrelandWinifred Hart (wife) aged about 63 born in IrelandAnd anyone living with them. In 1881 they were living in Vienna street in Leeds so I am hoping that if they were still alive that they would be in Leeds.Cheers.

uncle michael · Post by **uncle michael** » Tue 01 Jul, 2008 10:37 pm

cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: Anyone help please? Looking for my grandmothers birth. She was born Frances Alice Smith (circa 1881). Married William Henry White at Hunslet at 05/03/1904. Frances died 05/10/1957 at Spenborough (Yorkshire) Thanks Michael Hello MichaelWhat were the names of Frances parents?and do you have her in any of the census? Thanks for reply. On Frances wedding cert her father is stated as Benjamin Smith (deceased). His occupation was a commercial traveller. At the time of the marriage (1904) she was living at 6 Belmont Crescent Hunslet. The only birth certs that might fit is one in Kidderminster in 1881 and one in Bethnal Green in the same year. I have looked at cencus for 81,91 and 1901 but nothing seems to fit. Hope you can help. Thanks Michael Hello MichaelIm sorry for the delay in replying but ive been a bit tied up recently.How old is Frances on the wedding certificate? cnosni. Frances is 23 years old on her marriage certificate.I have found a Frances Alice in the 1891 cencus living with her father Benjamin amongst others in Pudsey. The same family appear in 1901 cencus livng in Bramley. Benjamin dies in the 3rd quarter of 1901.Benjamins occupation in the 1901 cencus was dyers labourer.The Benjamin on Frances Alices wedding cert was allegedly a commercial traveller (deceased) Regards Michael

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 1:01 am

uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: Anyone help please? Looking for my grandmothers birth. She was born Frances Alice Smith (circa 1881). Married William Henry White at Hunslet at 05/03/1904. Frances died 05/10/1957 at Spenborough (Yorkshire) Thanks Michael Hello MichaelWhat were the names of Frances parents?and do you have her in any of the census? Thanks for reply. On Frances wedding cert her father is stated as Benjamin Smith (deceased). His occupation was a commercial traveller. At the time of the marriage (1904) she was living at 6 Belmont Crescent Hunslet. The only birth certs that might fit is one in Kidderminster in 1881 and one in Bethnal Green in the same year. I have looked at cencus for 81,91 and 1901 but nothing seems to fit. Hope you can help. Thanks Michael Hello MichaelIm sorry for the delay in replying but ive been a bit tied up recently.How old is Frances on the wedding certificate? cnosni. Frances is 23 years old on her marriage certificate.I have found a Frances Alice in the 1891 cencus living with her father Benjamin amongst others in Pudsey. The same family appear in 1901 cencus livng in Bramley. Benjamin dies in the 3rd quarter of 1901.Benjamins occupation in the 1901 cencus was dyers labourer.The Benjamin on Frances Alices wedding cert was allegedly a commercial traveller (deceased) Regards Michael Hello MichaelDont worry too much about Benjamins occupation.Occupations can and do change a great deal from census to census,especially for unskilled occupations in large conurbations.In fact,when it comes to occupations i have a great example of different occupations for the same person in the PR for Bolton Abbey.Bolton Abbeys PR is really excellent,the best i have come across so far,especially on the baptism side of things.Not only are both parents named,but so are the parents of both parents,including where they all live and all their respective occupations.There are however contemporary discrepancies in occupations for the same person mentioned in baptisms.I have a William Emmott in my tree.He has a number of children baptised at Bolton Abbey.These children go on to marry and have children of their own baptised at Bolton Abbey,all within the same time period.One child of William states that William Emmott is a weaver,whereas another states he is a farmer.In the same PR i have a similar situation with a James Clemie,where at the baptism of one grandchild he is described as a farmer,but in another (in the same year) he is a carpenter.As for the marriage certificate the fact that the father (Benjamin) is deceased is a very good pointer.Can you give me the full details that you have in the 1891 and 1901 census,ages,places of birth etc?

Si · Post by Si » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 9:09 am

Hats Off wrote: Hi all, hoping for a little luck with this one. Continuing from my earlier thread could someone please lookup 1891 census (Leeds) forJames Hart aged about 66 born in IrelandWinifred Hart (wife) aged about 63 born in IrelandAnd anyone living with them. In 1881 they were living in Vienna street in Leeds so I am hoping that if they were still alive that they would be in Leeds.Cheers. Hi Hats Off,In 1891 James (58,) Winifred (62,) Martin (34) and Mary Ann Hart (9, grandaughter) were living at 7 Hound Court, NE Leeds. They were all born in Ireland except Mary Ann (Leeds.)James's occupation is written as "scavenger" and Martin as "soap maker."I can't find Hound Court on the 1908 map, but there's a Hound Street (back-to-backs) running north off the east end of High Street (Quarry Hill.) I'm guessing Hound Court is the yard at the back. This will now be under the DSS building.Hope that's useful. Do you want me to check the 1901 Census?Cheers,Si.

uncle michael · Post by **uncle michael** » Wed 02 Jul, 2008 9:37 am

cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: cnosni wrote: uncle michael wrote: Anyone help please? Looking for my grandmothers birth. She was born Frances Alice Smith (circa 1881). Married William Henry White at Hunslet at 05/03/1904. Frances died 05/10/1957 at Spenborough (Yorkshire) Thanks Michael Hello MichaelWhat were the names of Frances parents?and do you have her in any of the census? Thanks for reply. On Frances wedding cert her father is stated as Benjamin Smith (deceased). His occupation was a commercial traveller. At the time of the marriage (1904) she was living at 6 Belmont Crescent Hunslet. The only birth certs that might fit is one in Kidderminster in 1881 and one in Bethnal Green in the same year. I have looked at cencus for 81,91 and 1901 but nothing seems to fit. Hope you can help. Thanks Michael Hello MichaelIm sorry for the delay in replying but ive been a bit tied up recently.How old is Frances on the wedding certificate? cnosni. Frances is 23 years old on her marriage certificate.I have found a Frances Alice in the 1891 cencus living with her father Benjamin amongst others in Pudsey. The same family appear in 1901 cencus livng in Bramley. Benjamin dies in the 3rd quarter of 1901.Benjamins occupation in the 1901 cencus was dyers labourer.The Benjamin on Frances Alices wedding cert was allegedly a commercial traveller (deceased) Regards Michael Hello MichaelDont worry too much about Benjamins occupation.Occupations can and do change a great deal from census to census,especially for unskilled occupations in large conurbations.In fact,when it comes to occupations i have a great example of different occupations for the same person in the PR for Bolton Abbey.Bolton Abbeys PR is really excellent,the best i have come across so far,especially on the baptism side of things.Not only are both parents named,but so are the parents of both parents,including where they all live and all their respective occupations.There are however contemporary discrepancies in occupations for the same person mentioned in baptisms.I have a William Emmott in my tree.He has a number of children baptised at Bolton Abbey.These children go on to marry and have children of their own baptised at Bolton Abbey,all within the same time period.One child of William states that William Emmott is a weaver,whereas another states he is a farmer.In the same PR i have a similar situation with a James Clemie,where at the baptism of one grandchild he is described as a farmer,but in another (in the same year) he is a carpenter.As for the marriage certificate the fact that the father (Benjamin) is deceased is a very good pointer.Can you give me the full details that you have in the 1891 and 1901 census,ages,places of birth etc? Cnosni 1891 Cencus Benjammin Smith aged 30 Birthplace:Leeds Frances Smith aged 8 Birthplace Leeds Address:70 Parsonage Road,Pudsey Folio:RG12/3658-F78 1901 Cencus Benjamin Smith aged 40 Frances aged 18 Address:10 Bell Mount View,Bramley Folio:RG13/4205-F80 Benjamins wife was Anne or Ann E Regards Michael