A very old Establishment down the Skulls head yard (Part 1)

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 8:55 am

LS1 wrote: cnosni, that'll be the Abattoir. I have heard tale of animals being driven from Marsh Lane along New York Street to meet their misrable end! It was a big place that was built from what I can remember to replace the Leadenhall carcas market that was on Vicar Lane before the present market after some public health act or other. Now the Abattoir is on Pontefract Road. Nice place for an abbatoir,i remember the animals at Crossgreen getting loose on occasion,we sat it the science block watching the cows running around,hitting parked cars etc.

Si · Post by Si » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 9:14 am

cnosni wrote: LS1 wrote: Sounds like a great idea to get all the info together after the article has been published and then submit to Kevin Grady. I hope that his influence can assist in this being resolved and a good place for the skulls to be found. I might have a contact at the place that owns the property now. Speaking to mate of mine who's friend worked there a while ago. Need to see if he is still there or at least can put us in touch with someone there so we can go in warm! Damn good LS1.Leeds civic trust should be able to have some leverage on this issue,though i still think we need to somhow get the Skulls dated,hopefully the YAS will get back to us.If not then we might have to look at some other organisation with the necessary expertise.Phil and i are going down to the local studies room at Leeds central library tommorrow,see if we can put some hard facts to the story of the relationship between the skulls/recruits Good luck at the library, Cnosni & Phill.

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 10:55 am

Thanks Si.I'll put this picture up how I first found out Kirkgate used to be called Gallow tree gate. There's very little to be found about this grisly past. I wonder if it is featured on any old maps at all?I think I've only read about it twice and you can just make out the location marked in the botom left hand corner.

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 10:59 am

This 1950's view shows what I think is now the Las Vegas amusements. I'm positive that woodworkers shop used to be there in the 70's. It's selling good old 'pelmets' too. The shop next door is rather teasingly displaying 3 half a signs that could indeed read 'Gallow gate' perhaps?

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:00 am

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:31 am

The tram picture of Kirkgate would seem to show the sign as being"Howgate"especially the one on the window.As for the Gallow gate reference to Kirkgate i cannot find any mention of Kirkgate being known as this.All the maps and books i have refer to it as Kirkgate.There is a mention of "Gallow Hill Flat" in the Illus Hist,pge 16:-"The home farm comprised of of four elements:*(1)Hall Flatt,a fifteen acre field bounded by the headrow to the north,the gardens of of the Briggate burgages to the east,Boar Lane to the south,and the Manorial park to the west;*(2)Margaret Holmes ,south of the Manorial Park;*(3)GALLOWHILL FLAT;*(4)and the Holmes-a twenty acre field just south of the river"*My numbering So this would seem to indicate that "Gallow Hill" as an area is more towards the train station,rather than Kirkgate.The picture that has the Gallow Tree Gate written on looks as if its taken from the area where the chinese buffet place is now,opposite the old Scotsman pub.However if you look at the buildings in this picture then it would seem to me that its not the present Kirkgate as none of those buildings in the picture are on that side if Kirkgate,and of course you cant see the roof line of the old White Cloth Hall which should be visible in this picture.As the picture appears to be taken in the later part of the first decade of the 2oth century (look at the ladies hats etc) then the buildings we see on Kirkgate now should appear on the picture.

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:36 am

Thanks Chris. It does mention it briefly in one old Leeds book. I'll try think which one it is but I have seen that many. You can clearly see the marking on the first picture above. I think the Gallow gate reference will be hundreds of years old. The first pic is dated 1914 so someone clearly remembers it by that name then. I can find a reference to Leicester but not Leeds.

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:50 am

Phill_d wrote: Thanks Chris. It does mention it briefly in one old Leeds book. I'll try think which one it is but I have seen that many. You can clearly see the marking on the first picture above. I think the Gallow gate reference will be hundreds of years old. The first pic is dated 1914 so someone clearly remembers it by that name then. I can find a reference to Leicester but not Leeds. Ive checked my OS map index for any Gallowgate reference and cant find anything.Also Whites 1853 Directory and Gazetteer for Leeds,which has a street and yard index has no mention of it.This is odd,because the location LOOKS correct,but thye buildings dont match what we have now,and especially as the White Cloth Hall should definitely be there then it may mean that its a picture of another street.We can check this in the library today,they have alphabetical indexes of all the Leeds streets for various census.

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:55 am

Yes I know what you mean Chris. The buildings look hard to place. It is Kirkgate mentioned in both books I have seen. The tram curve has got to be were the Yorkshire bank is would you say? One caption says 'This is Kirkgate, one of the oldest streets in Leeds, the picture refers to Gallow tree gate, A hint of Leeds more grisly past. You will not find a mention of this old street on any present day maps. I get the feeling the dirty deed was carried out towards the parish church. Both Glasgow and Leicester have mention of Gallow tree gates still.

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:58 am

Phill_d wrote: Yes I know what you mean Chris. The buildings look the hard to place. It is Kirkgate mentioned in both books I have seen. The tram curve has got to be were the Yorkshire bank is would you say? One caption says 'Tis is Kikgate, one of the oldest streets in Leeds, the picture refers to Gallowgate, A hint of Leeds more grisly past. You will not find a mention of this old street on any present day maps. Census indexes should tell us if there was anywhere else in Leeds with such a name.That corner does look like the Yorkshire Bank,but the buildings dont match what should be there,look at the roofs,there is no sign of either wing of the White Cloth Hall,this is weird.