A very old Establishment down the Skulls head yard (Part 1)

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 9:08 am

drapesy wrote: The old maps Si posted are fascinating. I see both refer to the area around the Corn Exchange as 'Kirkgate Lees'- which is an area I've never heard referred to as such before. Anyone else ever heard of it before? It would also appear that the Crown and Fleece building (I reckon at 9 Crown Street by a process of deduction from the maps and a photo of adjacent propeties on Leodis) is still extant - having beem commercial properties. So a 'lost pub' - I'll get a photo ASAP. What is a Lee? I can only find a nautical reference in the dictionary. I always thought it meant grassland or meadow in old English, so does maybe it refer to when the area was open fields? Anyway, I'm straying from the point of the thread now!

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 12:40 pm

LS1 wrote: drapesy wrote: The old maps Si posted are fascinating. I see both refer to the area around the Corn Exchange as 'Kirkgate Lees'- which is an area I've never heard referred to as such before. Anyone else ever heard of it before? It would also appear that the Crown and Fleece building (I reckon at 9 Crown Street by a process of deduction from the maps and a photo of adjacent propeties on Leodis) is still extant - having beem commercial properties. So a 'lost pub' - I'll get a photo ASAP. What is a Lee? I can only find a nautical reference in the dictionary. I always thought it meant grassland or meadow in old English, so does maybe it refer to when the area was open fields? Anyway, I'm straying from the point of the thread now! Could be a derivative of Lea,as in meadow,grassland.Could have been a vey old description of the area behind kirkgate that had been maintained down the centuries.according to modern map of Leeds around 1500,the area that the Corn Exchange would appear to be still clear of buildings.The 1770 Jeffreys plan of Leeds shows that the area had been built on,but the future site of the third White Cloth Hall is still "open",described as Tenters Garth.Tenters were the wooden frames used in the process of woollen cloth making.The cloth was stretched out over the frame,held tightly in place by hooks,hence the term "Being on Tenter/Tender hooks"So perhaps in the very early days of Leeds cum Holbeck,this area was open meadow land ,a Lea,and the name stuck for a good long while.Conjecture,but its as good a reason as i can think.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 12:54 pm

Think you might be right there!! Often place names are so called for very simple reasons - Briggate - road to the bridge Vicar Lane, cos thats where the vicarage was!!! (where the market is now!)

Si · Post by Si » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 12:57 pm

I think you're spot-on, Cnosni.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 1:18 pm

Si wrote: I think you're spot-on, Cnosni. Funny thing is is that ive never come across the term in Leeds before,in either census or parish registers,no mention in the Illus hist.Any way Drapesy,can you just clear up for me where you think the skulls were.

jf · Post by jf » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 1:34 pm

Phill_d wrote: This is the next building down and no trace of the skulls.Away from the hustle and bustle we step back in time to how it was 150years ago. Just something I've spotted in this photo (apologies if it's already been mentioned), but it looks like the painted advertisement/name on the gable end in the background states DY..., presumably 'Ion Dyson'. Does this narrow down the location of the building which was home to the skulls, or are we already fairly certain of the location?

jf · Post by jf » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 1:36 pm

Sorry, my post didn't include the photo in the quote! It's the fifth picture on Page 1 of this thread (or 6th if you include the LHES logo).

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 1:44 pm

Well spotted JF. I noticed that sign but never put the 2 together. I've cropped this one. It's deffo Ion Dyson yes.

Phill_d · Post by **Phill_d** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 1:53 pm

This is as far as you can get to the gate at the far end. Dysons is on the left. There has been a lot of alterations down the yard. There is old and new brickwork. If you look above the brick is much more weathered than below.

Si · Post by Si » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 2:00 pm

Where were you stood (in relation to the Google Earth image) when you took that pic, Phill? Well spotted, JF! Which gable end is the "Old Dyson Sign Of Leodis?" Is it the end one, or the one on what was the pub?