A very old Establishment down the Skulls head yard (Part 1)

[Si]

Retry. 1847 map.It worked! You can see (by clicking on the image to enlarge it) how Crown Court turns and passes under two covered ginnels to reach Kirkgate.    

[Si]

And for my next trick - the 1906 map.Quite a lot of changes in 60 years! Corn Exchange, Assembly Rooms, railway, New Market Street, etc...    

[drapesy]

thanks for that!

[Si]

No problem....well, actually loads of problems! I guess it's not so bad once you get used to it!

[Brandy]

nice one si thanks for that mate.

[cnosni]

Ok everyone,still havent heard from the YAS,but as they are not a full time organisation as such then i wasnt expecting a full reply,so i thought i would copy what i sent:-"On Secret Leeds we discuss a number of subjects,basically centred around Leeds and its past,nothing too serious,none of us are what you would call "Historians",merely people with an interest in the old and mysterious parts of Leeds,its buildings,its history and its legends.I have contacted yourselves as i was hoping you may be able to either answer,or at least point us in the right of being able to find the answer to, a question that we have been discussing for a short while now.One of the many topics we are discussing at the moment is regarding some carved stone Skulls that were situated on the rear of a building in Crown Court,between Kirkgate and the Corn Exchange.You may already be aware of these skulls and their history so therefore you must forgive me if i continue to give you the details of what little i and others on Secret Leeds already know,or at least think we know,about them.The legend about the Skulls is told In the Yorkshire Evening Post publication 'Memory Lane Volume Two' I saw a photo of two skulls and read theaccompanying paragraph which stated....‘In Crown Court, an alleyway between Kirkgate and the Corn Exchange in Leeds there are two stone skulls sethigh on a wall of a former stable. These are to commemorate two men who were press ganged (crimped) intothe army at the time of the Peninsula war (1803-14). They were locked overnight in a stable where they sank,all too comfortably, into a bed of straw and suffocated’. Further research revealed….They were asphyxiated by the ammonia gas given off by the rotting hay and the military authorities had theskulls carved and placed on the building “pour encourager les autres”Though we have heard this tale before there is some debate over the age of the skulls in question,i have attached three photos 2 of the skulls,one in its previous location in Crown Court,and one in its current location in Buslingthorpe,and one of the building in Crown Court Yard as it is today,with what would appear to be the entrance of the hayloft still visible.I was wondering if you could take a look at them,and if you would be so kind, give an informed opinion as to whether they are of early 19th century origin,or older.Its mine,and a few others belief that the condition of the skulls would indicate that they are much older than the early 19th century.Though they appear to have been in Crown Court until 1974,when the owners of the building Ion Dyson relocated to Buslingthorpe,this amount of time,in a relatively sheltered alleyway would not seem to account for the amount of wear and tear that they have suffered.If you believe that they are possibly of an earlier origin then i was wondering if you could give me some idea of possibly when they could have been carved,and also if they would have been carved for a particular purpose,for example what we have been speculating which is a church adornment or some sort of tombstone carving.It is the suspision of a few of us that these carvings are medieaval,and i have speculated that they may have come from the old Parish Church on Kirkgate when it was dismantled in 1838.Clearly this is conjecture and i am reluctant to speculate as to how the skulls would have been placed there more than 20 years after the recruits death,though clearly the event would have been a living memory to those in the area in 1838 and perhaps it was someones way of commemorating the event,but as i said this is pure cojecture and has absolutely no base in fact.I would like to thank you for taking the time of reading this message and hopefully the provision of "help" with trying to get to the root of the question of the skulls, which we are,by the way,hoping to try and have them replaced in a far more suitable location than where they are now,on a wall at the back of an industrial unit,out of site of the public."Hopefully this meets everyones sentiments

[Hoppers-World!]

Great investigative work there Philll, loved the back passage pun.

[Phill_d]

Hoppers-World! wrote: Great investigative work there Philll, loved the back passage pun. Thanks Hoppers! A good team effort by the S.L gang here

[drapesy]

The old maps Si posted are fascinating. I see both refer to the area around the Corn Exchange as 'Kirkgate Lees'- which is an area I've never heard referred to as such before. Anyone else ever heard of it before?    It would also appear that the Crown and Fleece building (I reckon at 9 Crown Street by a process of deduction from the maps and a photo of adjacent propeties on Leodis) is still extant - having beem commercial properties. So a 'lost pub' - I'll get a photo ASAP.    

[Si]

Good idea, Drapesy. I couldn't remember if the Crown and Fleece had been covered in Lost Pubs, and I didn't have time to trawl through 37 pages!!!Never heard of Kirkgate Lees either. BTW, these maps are a great investment!