Burley Bar Stone - and the rest

liits · Post by **liits** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 9:05 am

Here is an enlargement of Phil's 1958 pic showing the stone in situ.Both the stone and the drainpipe can be seen plainly.As to "where was the stone in the 1906 photo?". I suggested that it was one of two anomalies, one of which was, in all probability, a drain pipe / soil pipe exiting the wall at low level. I still think that the other one could well be the stone.If it had been in place for the hundreds of years that it seems to have been, doubtless the level of the pavement had risen over time - as has also been suggested.I agree that the wooden structure beside the chap pointing the stone into its new locations is actually a wooden hoarding, erected while the building was demolished.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 10:34 am

LS1 wrote: Well solved Phill! Great pics and finally good to see it in situe.Now on to the next mystery - btw where did you mange to get those pics? They look good, not seen those before. Hi Lee. They came from a source that's had plenty of free photos out of me, and more than a few stories out of Secret Leeds too. I thought the least they could do was let us use a few of theirs in return http://yorkshirepost.newsprints.co.uk/s ... neActually that looks a very good site to bookmark and use for future research. Many of those photos I've never seen at all via a google search. I'm sure a few on here will loose a good few hours looking at it. The photos can be bought too, they aren't so cheap, but if it's an important photo to then a few quid is worth it. I only found these elusive photos with a typing era. I tried 'Vicar Lane bus station' but forgot to add Leeds. Anyway it did the trick and found once unsearchable photos if Leeds was included. You can use the search function on the page, there seems to be a massive collection. I've just ordered a bigger and better quality 12x8 print. The bar stone is so poorly recorded in photos it would be good to have a good online version of it. And yes Liits. I agree what you have marked is the most likely to be the bar stone. It's only just poking out of the ground though. It would be great if we could actually date these things next. A St Julien shop is new to me, is that how it's spelt? It looks to be on the sign. A charity type of shop perhaps? Relevant Council types, Civic trust, and WYAAS could do with updating now. Lets just hope it isn't damaged behind the shop front.

liits · Post by **liits** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 12:47 pm

The shop was Buckle's [Mrs Emily Buckle] Confectioners & Tobacconists.The ad is for Ogden's St Juien Empire Blend Tobacco "Cool & Fragrant". Wine flavoured tobacco, a forerunner of Old Port cigars.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 1:44 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: LS1 wrote: Well solved Phill! Great pics and finally good to see it in situe.Now on to the next mystery - btw where did you mange to get those pics? They look good, not seen those before. Hi Lee. They came from a source that's had plenty of free photos out of me, and more than a few stories out of Secret Leeds too. I thought the least they could do was let us use a few of theirs in return http://yorkshirepost.newsprints.co.uk/s ... neActually that looks a very good site to bookmark and use for future research. Many of those photos I've never seen at all via a google search. I'm sure a few on here will loose a good few hours looking at it. The photos can be bought too, they aren't so cheap, but if it's an important photo to then a few quid is worth it. I only found these elusive photos with a typing era. I tried 'Vicar Lane bus station' but forgot to add Leeds. Anyway it did the trick and found once unsearchable photos if Leeds was included. You can use the search function on the page, there seems to be a massive collection. I've just ordered a bigger and better quality 12x8 print. The bar stone is so poorly recorded in photos it would be good to have a good online version of it. And yes Liits. I agree what you have marked is the most likely to be the bar stone. It's only just poking out of the ground though. It would be great if we could actually date these things next. A St Julien shop is new to me, is that how it's spelt? It looks to be on the sign. A charity type of shop perhaps? Relevant Council types, Civic trust, and WYAAS could do with updating now. Lets just hope it isn't damaged behind the shop front. Fantastic, I'll give that a go to pass some hours later!

mark1978 · Post by **mark1978** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 5:18 pm

Great find Phil.

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 5:33 pm

Have overlaid the photos, using lamp post as common point of reference, to show pre bus station location of Bar Stone location on Post Bus Station construction picture.

geoffb · Post by **geoffb** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 6:00 pm

That's great Phil, just where I thought it was/is. Now over to Leeds Trust to pull strings and get it revealed. Bet they new it was there all along (not)

geoffb · Post by **geoffb** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 6:03 pm

Now for the South Bar, is it where it should be?

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 6:21 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: I've gone through 14 various books of old Leeds history and found....nothing Until I looked at the last and smallest book I have and found this The book is 'Leeds visible history' by G.A.Rhodes published in 1993.Sadly that's the exact size the photo is printed in the book. But it's great to find because this is only the 2nd photo we have of the actual bar stone. It is better quality than the 1930's photo, and it should clear up Jim's idea that the stone looked too new and the writing was too black. This photo shows the 1930's photo was probably coloured in like I said earlier. The courses of brick match exactly with the 1930's photo. And the info about the bar stones being in place by 1485 is useful too. The Sheepscar beck boundary is unexpected to see, and there is no mention of the Kirkgate East bar stone. I presume the Sheepscar beck bar stone mentioned would be the East bar stone. But in that area it was called Timble beck. Maybe just a slight error on the authors part there I think. As mentioned earlier the book was published in 1993, and all the photos in it are early 1990's. So it was still visible at that time. Hi Phil, the source for the Bar Stones being in situe in 1485 must be the same source that Kevin Grady and the Illustrated History of Leeds used to show the Bar Stones in their map dated circa 1500.Henry VII was a shrewd character, very careful with money, i wonder if he had a bit of a survey done of his lands. Leeds was under the Duchy of Lancaster, a title which Henry took on (the Queen is still the Duke of Lancaster) when he came to the throne, and they therefore,as a result of this assumption of the title, became royal/Crown land.Leeds stayed as Crown property until Leeds was sold by Charles I to the City of London to raise money, pre civil war though i think.

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 05 Mar, 2014 6:31 pm

So do we reckon this is where it is now then??