Burley Bar Stone - and the rest

[mark1978]

Still puzzling over these.In the first photo, laddio is cementing the bar stone into what looks like a fairly new wall, next to some much older-looking brickwork.If this picture shows the bar stone being set into the top end of the bus station, one of the other two photos would show brickwork of that type in the Crown and Anchor / Prestons. You'd also expect to see two downpipes next to each other, which is what I think I see in the first photo. There's nothing like that in either of them.It couldn't be round the back of the same block could it? The photo would probably have to be reversed for that to make sense, but it's possible. Anyone want to have a nosey in the car park of the Hellenic?

[LS1]

Phill_dvsn wrote: It wasn't laid inside the entrance was it? It would make sense putting it under cover and protecting it from the elements. Good shout Phill, so its possible that it could be inside the shop perhaps?Anyone got any idea when the entrance was converted into a shop? I don't even remember it as a a bus station (well, just) let alone an entrance!    

[mark1978]

liits wrote: I’ve just had a thought. The picture of the North Bar stone posted by jogon shows a soil pipe, fall pipe to the left of the stone.On the subsequent pictures, the only building with any such pipe is the Lead Works. And that was demolished to make way for the bus station.What I’m getting at is this, if the chap is pointing around the stone in its new location, the bus station, the bus station does not have any pipework at the front or at the end under the “round” overhanging bit. Was it moved again, or is it somewhere else on the building. Looks like we've had the same thought at the same time!It looks to me like there are two pipes next to the guy. And what's with the dark area on the far left of the photo?

[Cardiarms]

Phill_dvsn wrote: Were getting warmer My tuppence worth is that when the bus station was built, the photo shows the bloke cementing it in next to the down pipe to the right of 'Ales'.

[LS1]

Cardiarms wrote: My tuppence worth is that when the bus station was built, the photo shows the bloke cementing it in next to the down pipe to the right of 'Ales'. And so when the stone was cemented in as in the photo it was next to the old building hence the difference in stone we see today?

[Phill_dvsn]

Yes Cardi is spot on. The brickie would be laying the stone in the double garage doors of the Metal Merchants. You can see the same fall pipe too. You can clearly see the old Crown and Anchor brickwork next to the new, it is very rough. That's the point I was trying to get across a few pages back. I tried to explain that the new brickwork you see in the stone relaying photo is far too wide to exist today. It can't be seen looking like that. The bus station pillar is too narrow to look like that. The bus station pillar is only 2 and a half bricks wide, you can see it's at least 3 new bricks wide on the relaying photo. Anyone else realised the bar stone is marked on the map in a straight line down from Harrison Street and what it signifies? That would be of course named after the same John Harrison I mentioned earlier. http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Attach ... D=104346He owned the land just past the bar stone where he built the grammar school opposite St Johns Church, roughly where the Grand Theatre is today. The bar stone boundaries were important in the day in so much as the people living within them had special privileges. They payed lower tithes, they had free delivery of letters, and they were exempted from jury service at York Assizes amongst a few examples. For his land to be outside the boundary stone I feel a little odd. I'm sure there must be some kind of clues to bar stone dates, or reason why the North Bar stone was placed where it was because of this fact.                            

[liits]

Ha! I've just been trying the same thing as Phil. I'm still not sure the perspective is right.

[Phill_dvsn]

liits wrote: Ha! I've just been trying the same thing as Phil. I'm still not sure the perspective is right. Hey Liits. That's a piece of cake You want to try doing what I'm doing now I'm trying to piece drawings of the workhouse next to modern day scenes. No matter how much you study things, you can't account for artistic license of the artist years ago. You can match one thing up, but never two

[mark1978]

Phill_dvsn wrote: Yes Cardi is spot on. The brickie would be laying the stone in the double garage doors of the Lead works. You can see the same fall pipe too. You can clearly see the old Crown and Anchor brickwork next to the new, it is very rough. Except - in the picture that shows both the C & A and the Leadworks, there's no brickwork to be seen on either of those buildings. They're both rendered. Are you saying the rendering must have been stripped off both buildings at some point between 1906 (Leadworks photo) and the 1930s (brickie photo)?And can anyone else see two downpipes in the brickie photo or am I going mad?

[mhoulden]

Interestingly, the stone does not appear on the attached map (above) from 1891.Courtesy of Leodis, here's a picture of the workhouse from 1832:The map from 1847 at http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Leeds/ and posted here earlier:shows a doorway between the pub and the workhouse with the bar stone on the right. You can just see the door and a blob next to it in the 1832 drawing. The workhouse closed in the 1840s but was a leadworks by the 1890s. The doorway became a garage door entrance into a yard, which might account for the strange brickwork. The bricks on the left of the doorway don't match the close view, so I'm going to stick my neck on the line and suggest the bar stone was placed just underneath the window to the right of the doorway. There were various improvements to Vicar Lane/North St over time including some in the 1900s and some more in the 1920s so it may have been done some time then. The workhouse/leadworks was demolished in 1936 so there wouldn't have been much point building it into a condemned building