Burley Bar Stone - and the rest

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 8:23 pm

Your right Jim. The stones do look different on photos. But I do think the passing of time, weathering, and possible damage to the stones when salvaging them took place is what we are seeing. You can clearly see bits of the black finished look on the Burley bar stone today. Not much, but it is there, the rest has flaked away with weathering. If you look carefully you can see it is the same carved writing style. But on the stone today the chamfered edges seem to have vanished. I do think the stones were damaged when they were lifted out. Possible chipped corners and edges. The obvious answer is to cut the damage out and leave a nice clean square cut. That would explain why they look different from old photos perhaps? The stones we see today all have very clean straight edges that doesn't fit right with something medieval. Perhaps the Burley bar stone was itself rebuilt into another building before going inside in the case? It's very likely. Again dates of demolition and rebuild in that area would answer that question.

jim · Post by **jim** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 8:30 pm

Perhaps the face of the North Bar stone was completely recut when refitted in Vicar Lane? I certainly cannot reconcile the conditions of the two from the published pictures.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 8:46 pm

Stone outdoors stands the test of time pretty well. But as soon as one piece of grain in that stone succumbs to water ingress. The rest of the stone soon disintegrates. Within a few years it resembles nothing of it's former self. Here's a stone that looks totally different, the bottom half has been eaten away from the wet soil. The top half still in good condition. Sometimes the buried part of the stone has been protected from decay, the part open to the elements has deteriorated. I think this weathering is what your seeing on the Burley bar stone Jim.

Jogon · Post by **Jogon** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 9:46 pm

Thanks chaps, excellent work, interesting reading.I heard a bit on radio leeds which said that Leeds Planning + Civic Trust were against allowing demo of the WY bus station.It looks a 1930 build which would tie in with yon brickie.These should all be in Leeds Museum, or rather The Civic Theatre.

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 9:56 pm

Other than the photo of the man placing it I wonder if there is another photo of the North Bar stone known to be available anywhere?it's a shame that the photo here that Phill used earlier does not include more of the buildings to the right (as seen) as it may have got the North Bar stone in it! I like the advert for what may be 'Bentleys Fine Ales' next to a 'Tetley's Fine Ales' pub. Can anyone work out what the taller man by the door is holding as it could be a gun but probably not.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 10:21 pm

Leodian wrote: Can anyone work out what the taller man by the door is holding as it could be a gun but probably not. Keep away from him Leo.the same guy is loitering outside the Gents toilets in the pub yard.I'm not sure what he's holding in his pocket It's the rear view of Crown and Anchor Public House, which fronted onto North Street. The back door of the hotel has a board with the landlords name, William Francis Allanson.It would be great to see a photo of the bar stone yes Leo. There must be one street scene with it visible.Photo from Leodis herehttp://tinyurl.com/knfm59e

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 11:23 pm

That post made me Phill.The horse/pony-drawn carriage looks a much more fun ride than a trolleybus will be! As a bonus the horse droppings can be used on the garden. That is some chimney stack behind the carriage!

mark1978 · Post by **mark1978** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 11:39 pm

Thought I'd have a look at the (plethora of) Eastgate Quarter planning docs on the LCC planning website to see if there's any reference to this. They're all to be found here:http://plandocs.leeds.gov.uk/WAM/showCa ... 1000/OTThe West Yorkshire Archaeology Advisory Service's consultation document is at http://plandocs.leeds.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Co ... ageCount=1 and includes the following comment:"96-104 Vicar Lane (formerly Vicar Lane Bus Station). This building is a good (althoughaltered) example of a type of small-scale inner city bus station ubiquitous in the middle of the20th century and now virtually vanished. Please Note: the North Bar stone, a post-Medievalcarved stone marking one of the northern entrances of the town, has been built into thefaçade of 104 Vicar Lane (currently masked by a sheet of plywood);"and then:"The WYAAS would recommend that the North Bar stone be recorded archaeologically, and thencarefully removed from the fabric of 104 Vicar Lane and reinstated within the new developmentas close as possible to its current location."I know there's been some debate over this but one would hope the WYAAS know what they're on about!The overall environmental statement for the project (http://plandocs.leeds.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Ba ... ageCount=1) says nothing about the bar stone, and only this about the old bus station:"100 – 104 Vicar Lane10.62. This building is unlisted (see Figure 10.2, 09). This two/three storey building incorporated theoriginal bus station constructed for the West Yorkshire Bus Company dates from 1936-7. Itsmodernist Deco style contrasts with the neo-classicism of the Eastgate axis. The building is builtof brick, with concrete detailing, a semi-circular bay at first floor level and has a flat roof. Thebuilding became unsuitable for a bus station and has undergone remodelling to create groundfloor shop fronts with the installation of modern plastic framed windows. These severely limit thevalue of this building and it is regarded as of limited architectural and historical interest."However there's another document (presumably in response to the consultation with WYAAS) at http://plandocs.leeds.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Ba ... ageCount=1 which notes:"Consideration should be given to all buildings of merit including the Lyons Works and the North Bar Stone."My uneducated guess then (and sorry if I'm raking over old ground or have missed someone else saying the same thing) is that the bar stone use to be up at the Hellenic end of the bus station, opposite the junction with Harrison Street as per the old maps. It was then removed when the building was altered to incorporate an entrance up at that end, and subsequently re-set in the curved corner fascia where it still resides behind the plywood. Does that sound plausible?

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 11:53 pm

That's an excellent and most interesting post mark1978. Thanks for taking the time and effort it must have taken.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Sat 01 Mar, 2014 3:20 am

[quotenick="mark1978"] Please Note: the North Bar stone, a post-Medievalcarved stone marking one of the northern entrances of the town, has been built into thefaçade of 104 Vicar Lane (currently masked by a sheet of plywood);"Excellent post mark 1978http://tinyurl.com/q76t8u2