Burley Bar Stone - and the rest

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 1:33 pm

Hi Lee.I'm thinking the brickwork behind the cladding could have belonged to one of the older buildings (before the Hellenic cafe building was built) somewhere near the Crown and Anchor pub. It's quite possible the cladding you see is the same as on the pub itself on that photo. If you look on Leodis you can see some of these old buildings in this area and around Lady Lane still standing in 1937. It's just a case of getting a timeline together for demolition and new build really. If the photo of the stone being laid shows it being placed next to a since demolished building, It would have been moved yet again... In theory anyway. I think the old stone relaying photo is a red herring, we will never find it like that...I don't think it exists in that state anymore. That's my opinion only. As you say Lee that photo could just have been a temporary job until both buildings were complete. The stone then moved yet again to it's permanent location (and subsequently hidden)These old photos are tagged with North Street - not Vicar Lane.A street name change took place somewhere back in the mists of time. Photo from Leodis herehttp://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIde ... SPLAY=FULL From what I can gather much of the old brickwork at the back is a surviving reminder of the old buildings that once stood there. They didn't mind using old structures, bricks, and brickwork back in the old days. This old brickwork matches our brickie at work photo much better than the newer Hellenic building brickwork I think. The street running up from where it's marked 'North Bar' on the map is Harrison Street.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 2:23 pm

I think North Street once ran this far down before New Briggate was created and the normal route into Leeds was down what is North Street now, and Vicar Lane now from the North.I think you have something with that being a red herring, though I guess the only way to find out would be to look under the added woodwork. - I do think that this was a later addition though and perhaps done in more recent years.Question is though, if its not there where is it?!

jim · Post by **jim** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 3:14 pm

Am I the only one to view the picture showing the "Bar Stone" being re-cemented into place displayed several times further back in this thread with suspicion? It bears no resemblance in form or surface to the Bar Stone displayed in the Leeds Building Society. That is heavily worn and patinated, and the lettering is barely legible. This one has a dead flat plane surface, with the marks of the mason (or stone saw) clearly showing, and the "olde worlde" lettering is as sharp as if it were done the day before. I will go away now and plan my next conspiracy theory

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 3:19 pm

LS1 wrote: Question is though, if its not there where is it?! Now that's the million dollar question Both pillars of brickwork either side of the building joint are two and a half bricks wide. I've added this photo for clarity of how many bricks make up a pillar on the building without cladding.The actual bar stone with mortar joint included is one and three quarter bricks in length. The bar stone is 7 course of brickwork high. The bar stone would be the exact same size as the white area I've marked out on the photo. In my opinion the stone is far too big to fit anywhere on that corner pillar of the bus station. That pillar would need a very small brick cut either side of the stone. A brick slither cut of around 2 inch wide only.The bus station pillar is only 2 and a half bricks wide. Yet on this old photo you can see at least three full bricks, and it's highly likely the wall is even longer. That to me leaves no doubt the bar stone can't be seen next to a building joint like that old photo suggests today. I've just realised that's actually an old gutter fall pipe running down next to our brickies fag. The fall pipe bracket holding it to the wall near his hand.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 4:24 pm

1933 map with all the old buildings still standing.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 4:51 pm

Got it..I knew those old buildings must have stood next to the bus station.And that is what we see on the old brickie photo Those 1951 R.A.F aerial photos come to the rescue again Jogon wrote: North Bar Stone? [edit - doesn't match look of orig 30's pic] I wonder if the bus station entrance and steps was an add on, or moved sometime in the 60's when the Hellenic building was built? That would account for why the bar stone was moved from the old brickie photo position. The white supporting beam above the entrance and windows suggests those stairs could be built anywhere under it.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 5:05 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: We need to be able to date the Hellenic building. The first entry in the phone books for the Hellenic cafe is 1976 at 106 Vicar Lane ???

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Thu 27 Feb, 2014 5:42 pm

What's unusual it the un-bonded end on bricks to the left of the stone adjacent to the older property. It's hard to tell from google but I dont think they are evident above the woodowrk of the former Hellenic but they could hve been lost when the new building went up next door.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 12:15 pm

Can anyone recall a time when those plywood boards weren't fixed to the curved frontage on the corner of Lady Lane? It appears they have been there since the 1960's looking at all the photos. I think Lee said he had a look behind them and the bar stone wasn't there? People say they can remember seeing the bar stone, and if those boards have always being there - Then the stone can't be on that corner if it has definitely been seen. So we can definitely rule out that boarded corner area of building for sure?The next bit of brickwork alteration is next to the bus station entrance. A new small wall was built a few feet out from the original window opening. The shop or office was extended out and a new window was fitted on top of the small wall. Something could be hid behind that false front these days?And sometime over the years the Hellenic cafe front was extended out towards the street too. When first built it was originally set back with the front concrete columns open to the elements. I'm not sure if you could walk through those columns and into the bus station entrance looking at the above photo? Something could have been hidden from view when that Hellenic cafe frontage renovation took place maybe?

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Fri 28 Feb, 2014 12:32 pm

All fascinating stuff. Who needs reality shows when we have this intriguing detection work. PS. I wonder what happened to the West Bar and the Woodhouse Bar stones? Can they be readily seen somewhere or are they being kept hidden from public view. I fear though that they may have been destroyed at somestage (perhaps considered too eroded).