St Margaret's Church Horsforth in the 1700s

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mhoulden
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Post by mhoulden »

Part of the graveyard is still there and only about 5 minutes walk from me. If you know what to look for I could have a look round and take some photos.The main cemetery in Horsforth opened in 1881. I don't know if anyone is likely to be in there.

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Steve Jones
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Post by Steve Jones »

If your Ann Page died in 1853 Chris it is likely to be her.I tried to select and paste the relevant pages from the pdf but can't get them to display correctly so if you want the informaion send me an email and i will let you have a copy.
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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

Steve Jones wrote: do you want me to email you a copy of the book Chris?if you already have the flatcapsandbonets DVd for mid West Riding it is on there. Hi Steve,have the DVD thanks.Here is the extract from the DVD-"Amongst, other notabilities of Horsforth was Ann Page,the celebrated female poacher,who flourished in the earlypart of this century. Mistress Ann, who was a tall, rawboned.specimen of the weaker sex, manifested a masculinedisposition at, a very early age.Instead of giving her attentionto the softer arts, with the practice of which her sisters are wont to delight creation's lords, and earn for themselves a character for refinement, gentleness, and every other feminine grace and virtue, she took delight in the sterner exercises of human life, and became in her very early expert in all boyish games and enterprises daring, and muscular strength.Unfortunately, 'Ann did not turn her physical talents to good account.She sought,on arriving at mature years,the baneful society of all the rogues and vagabonds that lurked in the vicinity of Horsforth,and allied herself with a gang of poachers.She soon became leader of this loose community and was foremost in all their desperate undertakings.Not content with her exploits in the game preserves of the neighbouring gentry,she distinguished herself in still greater crimes,and went so far as to commit burglaries and all other manner of criminal excesses, and exhibited in all her expeditions a tact and intrepidity seldom possessed even by the most adventurous of the opposite sex.She was also very familiar with the Gipsies, and occasionally accompanied them in their wanderings.Ann was a prominent object in the streets of Horsforth as she wore a beard, was always followed by one or two bull dogs, and had generally a repulsive appearance, especially to children. She was fond of cock fighting, and in dog fighting was very famous, inasmuch as she kept severalvery savage, pure-bred bull dogs, which she matched against allthe country round. Occasionally, when her dog was likely to be beaten by one larger than itself Ann would pick her dog up, and rubbing something into its hair,would put it down again and soon its opponent would shew the white feather,for the smell coming from Ann's dog would soon overpower it.Eventually Ann Page came to an untimely end. On Leeds Fair Sunday morning, in the year 1853, as she and her companions were drinking in a field corner near the Coney Warren, she dropped down dead ; some say from a blow from one of her companions,and others that it was a fit she had. An inquest was held, but nothing definite could be elicited, and she was buried without ceremony in a corner of the church yard.When she was carried in to the public house, after her fallingdown, her pockets were found to contain many picklocks skeleton keys, and other instruments relative to the burglars art.Thus ended the career of this remarkable woman. Had her energies been employed in a better direction she mightassuredly have wrought much good for her fellow creatures,andleft a name, revered for honesty and well doing, instead of beingnotorious for wickedness and unblushing criminality of everydescription."No real clues as to her age etc,and more worryingly there isnt a death registered in 1853 for an Ann Page in Leeds or Horsforth (there is one in Halifax),neither is their for an Anne/Anna/Hannah 1851-1854.with the exception of an Ann Page registered Hunslet July-Sep 1852 and a Hannah Page Oct-Dec 1854,also in Hunslet.We must remember that there was no fine imposed for non registration of births,marriages and deaths til 1874,so there is a strong possibility that the death was not registered,especially given her unpopularity.But as an inquest was held then surely her death would be registered.The Wharfedale Family History Group CD rom for Baps,Marriages and burials at Horsforth St Margaret and St James has a burial of an Ann Page of Horsforth 12/07/1852 aged 35 years,giving a birth year of 1817.However the actual burial record shows her age to be 45 years old,giving her a birth year of 1807!!!Could this be the Ann Page whos death is regitered July- Sep 1852 at Hunslet?Its the same quarter and year,and we know she died in Leeds and was buried in Horsforth.Could it be that the author had mistaken the year and it should be 1852 instaed of 1853?And where abouts in Leeds was Coney Warren,perhaps Hunslet?With regards to census' the only Ann Page i can find that is born in Horsforth in the 1851 census is aged 60 and living in Yeadon as a lodger to a James Jarrad and family.This Ann Page is shown as widowed so Page is not her birth surname,and the age is at odds with the burial age in July 1852.There is an Ann Page in the 1841 census living on Town Street,Horsforth,described as F.S (Female Servant) aged 35.,living with a George Dokrah aged 40.This age of Ann Page in 1841 does compare favourably with the age at the burial of Ann Page in 1852.The Ancestry database England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 has an Ann Page,aged 38, appearing before West Riding Sessions at Wakefield 03/03/1847 on a charge of Larceny,found not guilty,but this could be anyone and does not equate well with the age at the 1852 burial,though this is only by 2 years.So if this Ann died 1852 in Hunslet is the Ann buried in th same quarter at Horsforth aged 45 are the same person,and indeed the Ann who is the subject of the book,then do we have a baptism around 1807 for an Ann Page??Well there is,and whats more its an illegitimate birth recorded at Horsforth 15/02/1807 for a "Ann dtr of Sarah Page,natural child"This Sarah would appear to have another child out of wedlock in 1811 as there is a record of a baptism at Rawdon 23/09/1811 of a Thomas son of Sarah Page of Horsforth.It would seem quite likely that we may have our Ann,but who is her mother???    
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mhoulden
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Post by mhoulden »

I had a look round the graveyard at lunchtime. I couldn't find any graves for Mann or Page, so if they were buried there, either the headstones have gone (some were face down and others covered with ivy) or they may have been buried nearer the church (the yard is some distance from the church itself). They could also have been buried in the main Horsforth cemetery, but that opened a bit later. Here's some photos of what the place looks like now. Bigger versions on Flickr:http://www.flickr.com/photos/mhoulden/9 ... 095450402/

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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

mhoulden wrote: I had a look round the graveyard at lunchtime. I couldn't find any graves for Mann or Page, so if they were buried there, either the headstones have gone (some were face down and others covered with ivy) or they may have been buried nearer the church (the yard is some distance from the church itself). They could also have been buried in the main Horsforth cemetery, but that opened a bit later. Here's some photos of what the place looks like now Thanks for that.I think it looks as though the Manns that Barlick girl is interested in are from Hunslet.There are only 3 "Pages " buried at St Margarets that i can find,the earlier generations were buried at the old Bell chapel at the bottom of Town Street or at Guiseley.By the time of the opening of St Margarets the Pages had moved on to pastures new.I have a lot of research archived still awaiting detailed analysis,but some of them went to Bramley.    
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Steve Jones
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Post by Steve Jones »

Thanks for info on Ann page and the graveyard shots.I think you are probably right about 1852 being the correct date.it might be because of the quarter it was filed in that 1853 was put Chris?Also as the excerpt you kindly posted Chris mentions Ann had a habit of living and associating with gypsies it could very well be that she isn't on the census because she had moved /or was living with them.i assumed the reference to her burial might indicate she was buried on the north side,the traditional place for burying troublemakers,criminals and witches!
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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

Steve the quarter of registration is July to September,so definitely rules out 1853.There is a reference number on the cd rom for the burial which is probably the location of the grave,but without a grave plan its not much use.
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cnosni
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Post by cnosni »

@ BarlickgirlHow does this Hunslet aspect affect your Abraham Mann?
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purpleogre
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Re: St Margaret's Church Horsforth in the 1700s

Post by purpleogre »

What an interesting tale of Ann Page, who I think is one of my relatives ,,,, Coney Warren is mentioned in 1846 in the ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION when Woodside district was being setup, here is a snippet

ounty and diocese and at a distance of 95 yards or thereabouts from the western end of Watson's Paper mill the property of the Right honourable James Thomas Earl of Cardigan through Little Hawksworth Wood and across Outwood lane to the wall or fence forming the western boundary of the field called Front Field marked b as aforesaid and thence also northward along such wall or fence and the walls or fences forming the western boundaries of the fields called Fallowfield and Farclose marked respectively cand daforesaid and the wood belonging to Thomas Walton marked e as aforesaid and in a straight direction across the wood belonging to John Spencer Stanhope marked f as aforesaid to a point marked g as aforesaid in the middle of a certain footpath along the northern side of such last mentioned wood and at a distance of 53 yards or thereabouts from a certain stile on such footpath to the west of such last mentioned point and thence eastward along the middle of such lastmentioned footpath to the south western corner of a certain field called Marshall Old Pasture marked h as aforesaid and thence northward along the fences forming the western boundary of such last mentioned field and certain other fields called Middle Close Top Close and Brusgate Field marked respectively i j and k as aforesaid to the south eastern corner of a certain field called Low Field marked l as aforesaid and thence westward along the fence forming the southern boundary of such last mentioned field and of another field called Garden Field marked m as aforesaid and thence towards the north west along the eastern boundary of a certain field called Great Wollans and of a certain wood called Coney Warren and of a certain field called Coney Warren Close marked respectively n o and p as aforesaid as far as a certain small close marked q as aforesaid belonging to the Primitive Methodists and thence first westward and then northward along the southern and western boundaries of such close as far as the middle of the street or road called Horsforth Town street and thence westward along the middle of such street or road to a point marked r as aforesaid opposite to the middle of a certain occupation road belonging to the said John Spencer Stanhope and thence northward along the middle of such road to the southern boundary of a certain field called Top of the Lane Field marked s as aforesaid and thence eastward along such boundary and along the southern boundary of another field called Pasture Field marked t as aforesaid to a point marked u as aforesaid in the middle of a certain footpath adjoining thereto leading across certain fields Hill Top lane and the road from Horsforth to Yeadon to Rawden and thence towards the north west along the middle of such footpath as far as the boundary of the said chapelry of Horsforth and also all that part of the parish of Adel otherwise Addle in the same county and diocese situate on the western side of an imaginary line extending northward from a point marked v as aforesaid on the boundary between the last mentioned parish and the chapelry of Headingley in the parish of Leeds in the same county and diocese and at the south western angle of Ireland Wood and thence

I have been looking at an 1851 map https://maps.nls.uk/view/102344911 and I think it may be the bit of land south of the Town Street where the Trig Point is below Golden Bank

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