Dialect/slang

[Uno Hoo]

Previous postings started me thinking about "frame", meaning to make an effort. I believed this was in fact Old English rather than dialect, and that I'd come across it in its purer form.After the cogs had spun for a while, I recalled seeing it in a hymn, and I just happen to have a Methodist Hymn Book, the 1933 edition.Hymn 813 is by John Milton, no less, and v.4 goes as follows:-"The nations all whom Thou hast madeShall come, and all shall frameTo bow them low before Thee, Lord,And glorify Thy name."Not many people know that.

[Bramley4woods]

Uno Hoo wrote: Previous postings started me thinking about "frame", meaning to make an effort. I believed this was in fact Old English rather than dialect, and that I'd come across it in its purer form.After the cogs had spun for a while, I recalled seeing it in a hymn, and I just happen to have a Methodist Hymn Book, the 1933 edition.Hymn 813 is by John Milton, no less, and v.4 goes as follows:-"The nations all whom Thou hast madeShall come, and all shall frameTo bow them low before Thee, Lord,And glorify Thy name."Not many people know that. I think in this context what is meant in the hymn by "Frame" is to set themselves up, to firmly order and rank themselves as if constrained by a "Frame" (IE a fixed set -up) ordained by God.Hymns are in general not good examples of the common usage of language, an author's first priority is to create a good singable song and in fact usually to intentionally use language above that of the run of the mill people.I mean what would we make of "Chariots of wrath" and "Changeless decrees" to say nothing of "Pavilioned in splendour and girded with praise" nowadays. What on earth does that mean?In my experience "Frame" (Yourself) in the Yorkshire dialect means "make an effort and do it right". From this it can be easily deduced what "Framing like a man made of band" means.So I think the usage in the hymn is different to that in the traditional Yorkshire Dialect.

[Si]

Yes, if someone wasn't putting much effort into a task, they were "framing like a tart on a Friday night!" Also, "You're framing like a tart in a trance!"

[anthonydna]

My Grandparents from New Farnley used "Ummer" a lot, they pronounced it Hummer.By HummerHummer NickNot got a clue what they meant, my Mum still uses it, not got a clue what she means either!

[arry_awk]

Even the Yanks are onto it! They have Jeep-like truckscalled 'Hummers' now!One I remember my dad saying if you remarked aboutfeeling cold;'Cowd lad? tha' must ev blood like fourpenny ale'    

[Si]

arry awk wrote: Even the Yanks are onto it! They have Jeep-like truckscalled 'Hummers' now!One I remember my dad saying if you remarked aboutfeeling cold;'Cowd lad? that must ev blood like fourpenny ale' Hi Arry, US Hummers are like a rubbish Tardis - huge on the outside, and tiny inside. In Iraq, they are known as the second best light off-road vehicle - second to the Landrover, of course!

[arry_awk]

Thanks SiThey probably take some tipping over with that wheel track!

[Uno Hoo]

Good to read Bramley4woods' thoughts about the verb "frame". But I'm not convinced of your interpretation of Milton's intended meaning, Bram. I've just looked in my Concise Oxford which is close to hand, so haven't checked Collins or Chambers which are both downstairs. Here's what it says for frame.v.t & i. Shape,direct,dispose, (one's thoughts or acts, a person, for or to purpose, to do).It then goes on to define its other uses, but it seems clear to me that the dictionary definition is in accordance both with the dialect examples quoted on the thread and the intended meaning of the hymn.Oh, blow it! I went downstairs and looked in Collins and Chambers. Chambers tends to support the above, but Collins, in definition 25 specifically gives a Yorkshire and North-Eastern dialect meaning of to make an effort, usually used as an imperative!So I'd be inclined to say, Bram, that there's validity for both viewpoints.Thanks for responding!Regards, U Hoo

[Uno Hoo]

Good to read Bramley4woods' thoughts about the verb "frame". But I'm not convinced of your interpretation of Milton's intended meaning, Bram. I've just looked in my Concise Oxford which is close to hand, so haven't checked Collins or Chambers which are both downstairs. Here's what it says for frame.v.t & i. Shape,direct,dispose, (one's thoughts or acts, a person, for or to purpose, to do).It then goes on to define its other uses, but it seems clear to me that the dictionary definition is in accordance both with the dialect examples quoted on the thread and the intended meaning of the hymn.Oh, blow it! I went downstairs and looked in Collins and Chambers. Chambers tends to support the above, but Collins, in definition 25 specifically gives a Yorkshire and North-Eastern dialect meaning of to make an effort, usually used as an imperative!So I'd be inclined to say, Bram, that there's validity for both viewpoints.Thanks for responding!Regards, U Hoo

[Uno Hoo]

Sorry. The double posting's my fault. Phone rang at the crucial moment.