Have Our Transport Planners Lost the Plot? (If indeed they ever found one)

[Loiner1960]

Ask the question, "Why do we travel into town?" If it's for work, as I have had to do, then what can be done to reduce or mitigate the traffic? If it is for shopping, seems unlikely as the traffic is constant. Or more usually the school run. Don't forget schools and FE went back recently. Where are the cars coming from, what routes do they use and why. Trams, trolleybuses and guided buses work when they are cheaper, cleaner, convenient, constant and corporation owned!As Worst, Non-Arrive, StageRobbers and Cent! pay their shareholders and are only nominally accountable to Metro.Bring Metro upto speed and let them control the routes and vehicles. No more changes and lousy clapped out buses and trains. As for railway stations and bus stations. Who would willing be there after dark! I have noted that PTW, thats powered two wheelers are growing in Leeds thanks to a little foresight in the late 90's and free parking lockable area's. Leeds is accessed from south of the Aire by the M621 so crossing points are limited. Workers live in the north of the city with river valleys to access the centre. Now where is my local gyro-copter parking..

[anthonydna]

I come into Leeds along Whitehall Rd, I seem to be in the minority, but I can never remember there being less traffic on the roads.    

[Keg]

Tyke, no offence taken, Jim, i agree with you re loud music, loutish behaviour and general anti-social actions, in fact i could start another thread on it.I was under the impression that the tram and stupidly low fares is what tipped Sheffied into financial ruin. If that situation already existed then apologies i have my facts wrong.I think most people would use public transport as an option if it were easy enough.Take Horsforth station, it's perfect for us except that there is no direct bus service there and the car park is always full, even on a weekend. The station hasn't really changed to cope with the increase in traffic in my lifetime!

[jim]

Hi Keg. Sheffields stupidly low fares were,I assure you, in place on the buses many years before the Supertram system was built, and were only one part of the city's financial profligacy - and it's support from national government funding was another.Horsforth Station is a prime example of the success to be gained from effective rail transport systems, whether light or heavy. Unfortunately it is the victim of its own success. It has now reached the point where its infrastructure has become seriously overloaded, and without heavy capital investment cannot serve more people. Much larger parking facilities - and the land on which to provide them - longer platforms, additional carriages, and additional trains are required. Even more tracks will be required, as those around Leeds Station are once again reaching maximum capacity.The whole thing is one huge vicious circle. As you rightly point out, the investment needed for new rail services is enormous - and the same applies to expanding existing services in a substantial way. Nonetheless, rail is still the only effective solution to inner city congestion. It is much quicker and can carry more passengers per unit voyage than road mass transport. If the problem is to be addressed, it will have to be paid for, whether by government funding or by local council funding, or a combination of both. That means, of course, that in one way or another we will all have to pay for it.Uncomfortable but inevitable.    

[Keg]

Hi Jim, this why i could never understand the privatisation of the railways.I'm a firm believer in private enterprise but the railways or certainly the railtrack part should never have been privatised because i will not provide a quick enough return for shareholders so the will not invest.My persona view is that what is needed is a long term investment plan over 20-50 years,and that can only be done with public backing.I agree with you on Horsforth. There are at least 2 patches of land that could have been used for parking, both multi storey and underground to ease parking issues.

[jim]

On checking the history of the Sheffield Supertram system, I seem to have overlooked a few points.Opened in stages from1994-5, it was built at a cost of some £250 million, mostly funded by central government. The routes seem to focus on Meadowhall Shopping Centre, the Arena, and the major sports facilities and football grounds, when focusing more specifically on commuters would appear to be a more sensible target.In 1997 after unfeasibly low passenger figures the operating rights were sold to Stagecoach - for £1.15 million.    

[tyke bhoy]

Back to Bishopgate StreetIn the morning rush hour either the council plan has worked (motorists seeking alternative routes) or the traffic light timings on the Bishopgate Street/City Square have been shortened for pedestrians. I suspect a bit of both but mainly the latter. It also temporarily helps that with the steel fence and cones gone that this mornings car traffic was ignoring the lane markings and forming 3 lanes. Obviously the appearance of a wider vehicle (Bus/van/lorry/hgv) prevented this as the “three lanes” are really about 2 1/3 actual lanes and I take it the street markings will soon be changed to “enforce” two lanes. Of course the recent change to markings on King Street to “enforce” two lanes are widely ignored particularly as there is almost permanently two buses parked up at the stop just before Park Place.If it is a longer red light for Pedestrians in City Square is there any improvement for them any way? There is more pavement for them to populate but if the lights are red longer for them then it will become just as crowded as before as they now have longer to wait to cross (same pedestrian congestion but greater inconvenience in the longer wait). So the “improvement” is no better and possibly worse for pedestrians and definitely worse for motorists. No sign of the supposed improvements for cyclists yet!!It’s still no better in the evening rush hour where queuing back beyond Bewleys is a regular occurrence so whatever has changed in the mornings hasn’t had much affect in the evening.

[Keg]

Jim, useful analysis. Just to make sure i have read this correctly, £250mill to build, sold for £1.15, jesus.....Somone got a agrgain on the face of it, unless there were a whole host of liabilities included..

[jim]

Keg, just to make sure I have not been misunderstood, what was sold were the operating rights, not the infrastructure or ownership.

[raveydavey]

Money is inconsequential to the Peoples Republic of South Yorkshire - they simply spend what they haven't got, largely on things they don't need and then get the begging bowl out to central government and start all over again.That is why they have a tram network, Olympic sports facilities (that often lie empty), massively subsidised public transport, an arena, etc not to mention the whole host of things bought and then closed with public money?Did you not see the glee on the faces of the Sheffield councillors interviewed on Look North about Ed Milliband getting elected as the new Labour leader. Could it be that Milliband Jr is the MP for Doncaster....?