Leeds Bradford Airport

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 12:15 am

raveydavey wrote: Apparently the rail link "will happen":http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19978920The plan (according to BBC Radio Leeds) is for every council tax bill in West Yorkshire to go up by £7 to pay it...no mention of the private owners of the airport chipping in, unsurprisingly. Bit of a cheek that, I don't use the airport, so why should I pay? Hi Ravey,I very much doubt LCC have done the necessary research and background work sufficiently to justify a throwaway £7 comment as they have in any event.Their track record(pardon the pun) is not of the best order.They obviously feel unable to attract sufficient outside funding for same project proposal,a point not lost on many loiners I feel.Having said that,the current incumbents at Civic Hall are highly unlikely to be there in any or similar capacity in the next 10 years which brings me round to my original observation in that words can be cheaply used when proposed in the future.We've been here before I feel.

Post by **mhoulden** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 10:40 am

Did they have any thoughts about where this rail link might run? There's a very steep hill between the airport and the Harrogate line so that would take a fair bit of work, and on the other side the old branch line wouldn't really be suitable because it doesn't go near the airport and there's loads of houses in the way. The plan to run old Tube trains on the Harrogate line seems to have been quietly forgotten thankfully.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 12:11 pm

raveydavey wrote: Apparently the rail link "will happen":http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19978920The plan (according to BBC Radio Leeds) is for every council tax bill in West Yorkshire to go up by £7 to pay it...no mention of the private owners of the airport chipping in, unsurprisingly. Bit of a cheek that, I don't use the airport, so why should I pay? Oops Dave,people say that about the arena.The plan is to get a tram/train link in that will eventually go to Guiseley and onto Bradford Forster Square.The beauty is this,if its successful then further additions may come into being over the decades.I have said before that if Leeds wants these sort of large transport projects then we will have to pay our own way,we dont get money doled out to this city,never have and never will.Its a possible start to a wider system,im all for it even thoughi probably wont benefit from it.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 12:15 pm

mhoulden wrote: Did they have any thoughts about where this rail link might run? There's a very steep hill between the airport and the Harrogate line so that would take a fair bit of work, and on the other side the old branch line wouldn't really be suitable because it doesn't go near the airport and there's loads of houses in the way. The plan to run old Tube trains on the Harrogate line seems to have been quietly forgotten thankfully. Well im not sure the burghers of Harrogate had actually thought it through,as the tube trains were their suggestion originally and wouldnt be practical. I believe they have now decided they would like some old OHL powered stock instead so the line between Harrogate and Leeds would need OHL structures in place,so one would assume that any tram train would also be powered by OHL,well that would be the most sensible way forward.Seems the burghers of Harrogate and their Board of trade need to get together with the chaps proposing the airport link,or is that too common sense? There is also a new signalling system which will be commissioned on 29 Oct this year,between Horsforth and Harrogate.Rigton box will be closing.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 12:48 pm

somme1916 wrote: raveydavey wrote: Apparently the rail link "will happen":http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19978920The plan (according to BBC Radio Leeds) is for every council tax bill in West Yorkshire to go up by £7 to pay it...no mention of the private owners of the airport chipping in, unsurprisingly. Bit of a cheek that, I don't use the airport, so why should I pay? Hi Ravey,I very much doubt LCC have done the necessary research and background work sufficiently to justify a throwaway £7 comment as they have in any event.Their track record(pardon the pun) is not of the best order.They obviously feel unable to attract sufficient outside funding for same project proposal,a point not lost on many loiners I feel.Having said that,the current incumbents at Civic Hall are highly unlikely to be there in any or similar capacity in the next 10 years which brings me round to my original observation in that words can be cheaply used when proposed in the future.We've been here before I feel. Indeed,£7 does seem rather arbitrary and as we know costs always seem to go up (though the arena has come in on budget).Additionally Leeds councils track record on anything to do with transport speaks for itself but this time its not just Leeds council.Its actually being put forward by The Leeds City Regionhttp://www.leedscityregion.gov.uk/Okay,its populated by members of our illustrious council but perhaps,this time,with funding in place and with the input from other councils we may get somewhere,just maybe.Though of course it could be a matter of too many cooks,but considering the past record of our councils "chefs" and their inability to cook up a decent mass public transport strategy then im willing to give it a go.Doubt it will be £7 for 10 years,maybe 20 years in the end.

Riponian · Post by **Riponian** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 1:23 pm

It's about a mile from the Harrogate line near the south portal of Bramhope Tunnel to under the terminal buildings. There will be a spare TBM or two from Crossrail going idle in a couple of years time. Why not an underground station for the Airport?Mind you in the time they'd get round to it, you'd be charged a tenner to even drive past the airport on the main road and the double yellow lines will start at Pool Bridge.Wonder what the land of the former Yeadon Aerodrome could be used for in a few years time?

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 1:32 pm

cnosni wrote: Oops Dave,people say that about the arena.The plan is to get a tram/train link in that will eventually go to Guiseley and onto Bradford Forster Square.The beauty is this,if its successful then further additions may come into being over the decades.I have said before that if Leeds wants these sort of large transport projects then we will have to pay our own way,we dont get money doled out to this city,never have and never will.Its a possible start to a wider system,im all for it even thoughi probably wont benefit from it. I think you are being overly optimistic on the airport front. The arena will almost certainly provide an ROI because of the influx of people spending money in the local economy. Only the train operators and airport will see any additional revenue and I think that would be pretty limitedCall me cynical but a light rail link to an airport, which will probably involve changing vehicle at a railway station that is only on a commuter, i.e. not main, line, is not going to encourage many people to use LBA who wouldn't use it without the link. Even IF it does it won't be of much benefit to most public transport users and will mainly benefit the airport. If the airport wants it then the airport should put up a lot of the funding.To put it in perspective almost anyone in West Yorkshire can get a single train from their local station to Leeds or Huddersfield and connect with a TransPennine Express direct to Manchester Airport in one change. To get to LBA they would need to get a train to Leeds or Shipley (Airedale line only) catch a stopper train to Guiseley and then change a 2nd time to get to LBA. As most people travelling to airports are usually burdened with baggage they would normally take the route with least changes.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 2:57 pm

tyke bhoy wrote: cnosni wrote: Oops Dave,people say that about the arena.The plan is to get a tram/train link in that will eventually go to Guiseley and onto Bradford Forster Square.The beauty is this,if its successful then further additions may come into being over the decades.I have said before that if Leeds wants these sort of large transport projects then we will have to pay our own way,we dont get money doled out to this city,never have and never will.Its a possible start to a wider system,im all for it even thoughi probably wont benefit from it. I think you are being overly optimistic on the airport front. The arena will almost certainly provide an ROI because of the influx of people spending money in the local economy. Only the train operators and airport will see any additional revenue and I think that would be pretty limitedCall me cynical but a light rail link to an airport, which will probably involve changing vehicle at a railway station that is only on a commuter, i.e. not main, line, is not going to encourage many people to use LBA who wouldn't use it without the link. Even <strong>IF</strong> it does it won't be of much benefit to most public transport users and will mainly benefit the airport. If the airport wants it then the airport should put up a lot of the funding.To put it in perspective almost anyone in West Yorkshire can get a single train from their local station to Leeds or Huddersfield and connect with a TransPennine Express direct to Manchester Airport in one change. To get to LBA they would need to get a train to Leeds or Shipley (Airedale line only) catch a stopper train to Guiseley and then change a 2nd time to get to LBA. As most people travelling to airports are usually burdened with baggage they would normally take the route with least changes. Im not sure if you saw the news item last night but the plan is not for the link to run from Guiseley originally.The article said the plan was for a tram train (so it can use existing heavy rail lines and light rail lines) that will go from Leeds station (though the "map" on the news seemed to show an originating spur before the station at street level,that would be an engineering feat!)to LBA via the Harrogate line,which,from 29th October will be able to handle more train capacity due to the resignalling between Horsorth and Harrogate.There has also been some extensive work carried out at Horsforth with the points,to facilitate Northern Rail services from York (via Harrogate) to shunt through and be able to go back to York,so there is already preliminary point work in place to facilitate an airport link from HorsforthIt is then envisaged,and they did say envisaged, that the line would then extend towards Guiseley ,from the airport, and on to Bradford Forster Square via Dockfields Junction (i presume) at Shipley,from Shipley ,as you know,the line then goes to Skipton and Bradford Fortser Square.There is no reason,given its a tram train,that the tram train cannot eventually originate at BFS,Skipton or even York (via Leeds) for that matter and not be able to go direct to LBA without changing,in short,it will be no less difficult than it is now for the majority and in fact will be far more convenient for some of the users.Another advantage of course is that you would not have to travel an hour and a half (from Leeds),and longer from other places in the area,to Manchester airport,you can do Horsforth from Leeds with a non stopper in less than 10 minutes.Therefore,i believe,that travellers in West Yorkshire ,and further afield themselves would actually benefit,not just the airport and the airlines,from more choice of operators and flights with a much shorter travelling time to their airport of departure.Obviously the airport and the ailrlines will benefit,but if from this benfit they increase operations then they will employ more people.The airport is already planning significant expansionhttp://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-th ... masterplan and new/returning operators are coming to the airport so something needs to be done.One concern though is where the station at the airport would be,and from what i could gather it seemed to suggest the opposite side of Whitehouse Lane,the report citing that the station would be 200 metres from the main terminal,it really needs to be integrated with the terminal,though it doesnt really seem to be a problem at Manc.Another the point i was trying to make,is that IF it did come off,and IF it wasa Tram/train connection then perhaps,as with Manchester and Sheffileds tram system,future extensions to the scheme could be made and therefore Leeds and Bradford could end up having a quality mass public transport system everyone keeps harking for.Its all pie in the sky (they cant even organise a taxi rank),and im not holding my breath or pretending im some sort of expert,but i can see a lot of pro's to the scheme, alot more than there are con's

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 3:10 pm

Hopefully there is an image of the prososed links

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 18 Oct, 2012 3:14 pm

Links to some plans for the airport line from the LBA documenthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/8099791895 ... hotostream