Ex-Underground train plan for Harrogate line

[cnosni]

dogduke wrote: Signalling improvements and the return of twin tracks for the currentsingle line sections would be required and do NOT come cheap into todays world of beancounters etc.The present 'block section' from Rigton to Horsforth is in dire needof improvement.Pie in the sky ? You have hit the nail on the head there,but let me assure you it does not need the leaf fall season for it to be slippy.The biggest incumberance to the service between Harrogate and Leeds is the section between Harrogate and Horsforth.There are only 3 stop signals (not including the respective platform starting signals)between horsforth and Harrogate in either direction,controlled by Absolute Block signalling (colour light).This means a train stood at the signal protecting Bramhope tunnel cannot move until the train in front has cleared Rigtons crossing signal.Rigtons crossing signal cannot be cleared for the train to run until the train in front has cleared Harrogates home signal,which is after Hornbeam Park.Bare in mind that the train in front would have stopped at Weeton,Pannal and Hornbeam Park.This also applies in the opposite direction.There is a "plan",and i stress the word plan,to close Horsforth and Rigton boxes,put the sections of line covered by them under the control of Harrogate,and introduce more signals (and therefore signal sections)under track circuit block signalling.It would require the crossing at Rigton to be altered to an AHB or even a CCTV crossing.The introduction of more signal sections will mean that a train stood at Bramhope would not have to wait until a train in front had cleared Rigton,it may mean that it would only have to wait until say the train in front had cleared Arthington/Wescoe Hill or Weeton,depending on how many and where more stop signals are introduced.Believe me that this is the real crux of the problem,more signals allow more trains to be running at the same time on the same stretch of line.    

[cnosni]

Brunel wrote: And here at Poppleton crossing.http://snipurl.com/7yodm I doubt anything will ever happen on this stretch of line,its single track and the cost to expand it to twin track,replace signalling with colour light TCB signalling and replacement of crossings with a suitable alternative (AHB or CCTV) would make in unviable.There would also be a problem with the Nimbys if you widened the line between Harrogate and York to two lines.I fear a lack of funds and the will to do will mean that the satus quo will remain.Its more likely that any improvements will be on the Horsforth/Harrogate stretch.

[Riponian]

The Knaresborough to Cattal and the Hammerton to Poppleton section were double track until the early 1970's, so putting it back would be less of a problem.On the section between Horsforth, Rigton and Harrogate they could stick in automatic block signalling, as has been done the Settle - Carlisle line.They don't want those ex-London sardine tins. I'd never be able to get a seat home on the bus.

[headingleylad]

As far as I can see the only good ideas with this scheme are the 15 minute interval service Leeds to Knaresborough and 30 minute interval service York to Knaresborough, also opening some new stations such as Arthington P&R for Pool and east side of Otley, Knaresborough East, and Bilton.As to third rail electrification this is rubbish due toMixing electrification schemes at York and Leeds with complicated track circuit problems.Electrification would have to be carried between Leeds & Neville Hill Depot for serviceing & repairs.Trains would need to have toilets fitted and to use these toilets and for ticket checking purposes proper corridor connections.The Leeds to Harrogate line is prone to flooding that diesel trains can cope with, but not third rail trains, the snow & ice on this line would also hinder third rail trains.The only acceptable modern standard electrification is 25kv overhead that is compatible with the electrification at both ends of the line.Incidently you can run a 30 minute interval service between York and Knaresborough without redoubling the line a 30 minute service runs at peak time from York.