The dreaded FIRST BUS!

[Uno Hoo]

Cardiarms wrote: I occasionally get the 508 toward Halifax. Used to be a quick, direct, realtively frequent service. Now it goes via Kirkstall and Bramleyrather than Armley and takes a detour round Farsely changing it from an 'intercity' bus to a local service in Leeds. Takes forever now. Thanks for the info, Cardi. The 508 passes close to my house and I have used it to go to Leeds on occasion, but now it'll be local bus into Bradford to catch the X6. The 508 took long enough on the original route. I suppose Worst has reasoned that the 72 follows the same route (more or less), so divert 508 and presumably reduce frequency on or withdraw other routes.Went to NRM in York yesterday. Those little Optare saloons of Coastliner fly along.

[Riponian]

Just got another email from Worst Leeds. Hey, guess what, they're messing with the no 5 again. No doubt to the detriment of those who use it, but I'm not caring about this. I've given up on them and stationed a bike at Cyclepoint and enjoying the sport of dodging the traffic on Wellington St and up the canal towpath.

[BLAKEY]

A friend who works at Hunslet Park Depot (not a blade of grass or a tree in sight but who cares) tells me that changes in the pipeline for January will really horrify the Public this time - massive frequency reductions everywhere. Also, whether this is true or not I don't know, the City Centre Freebus is now on very limited time.Watch this space as they say.

[buffaloskinner]

BLAKEY wrote: A friend who works at Hunslet Park Depot (not a blade of grass or a tree in sight but who cares) tells me that changes in the pipeline for January will really horrify the Public this time - massive frequency reductions everywhere. Also, whether this is true or not I don't know, the City Centre Freebus is now on very limited time.Watch this space as they say. That doesnt suprise me Blakey, I come down Belle Isle around 8am every morning and I am shocked as to how few people are actually on a bus. In my day (70's) when I was out of Middleton Garage an 8am bus was bulging at the seams with standing room only.Now Belle Isle and Middleton have too many buses for too few people so frequencies are bound to change, and for the worse.Either too many people have cars or nobody goes to work anymore.

[Riponian]

Well considering how much we've been fleeced, maybe they're now on part two of the master plan.....They've priced themselves out of the market, then knocking back services (even reducing those to "Not In") and finally moan that they aren't making enough money and leave areas of the city bereft of buses after sunset. Let's face it, they won't get a handout from Metro.Doesn't sound like a very good business prospect to me, mess your customers about, land them with big cost increases and then reduce services because, um, they've stopped bothering to use your buses.Maybe this time next year, the 36 will run every 10 minutes and Kirkstall Road will be full of 760's with not a First bus in sight.

[raveydavey]

buffaloskinner wrote: BLAKEY wrote: A friend who works at Hunslet Park Depot (not a blade of grass or a tree in sight but who cares) tells me that changes in the pipeline for January will really horrify the Public this time - massive frequency reductions everywhere. Also, whether this is true or not I don't know, the City Centre Freebus is now on very limited time.Watch this space as they say. That doesnt suprise me Blakey, I come down Belle Isle around 8am every morning and I am shocked as to how few people are actually on a bus. In my day (70's) when I was out of Middleton Garage an 8am bus was bulging at the seams with standing room only.Now Belle Isle and Middleton have too many buses for too few people so frequencies are bound to change, and for the worse.Either too many people have cars or nobody goes to work anymore. There is a 16 that heads Leeds-ward at around 6.25 on a morning through the Woodpecker junction that is always packed to the gills - to the point where if it's a single decker people are stood in the aisles, as is the 56 wending it's way down York Road at about the same time.So there is plenty of demand for buses, but sadly it's limited now to those who don't have any choice.In my opinon there are so many empty buses is due to Worsts ridiculous "every ten minutes schedule" which is actually 6 buses per hour if you read the small print. It's not uncommon to see three 56's running together on the guided busway section of York Road, or to see 4's running in multiple less than a mile after setting off from the terminus. On Friday there were 3x56's and 2x40's on York Road running virtually in convoy between Torre Road and Selby Road - how big a gap in those schedules would there be after that?The first bus (no pun intended) is full, the following buses are empty, but there is now a 30 minute gap in that "every 10 minutes" schedule where there will be no buses - a scene that is replicated across Leeds.The main reason I stopped using buses is the price, the second reason, following very closely behind is that you have no idea how long you'll be waiting for one.

[BLAKEY]

Riponian wrote: Maybe this time next year, the 36 will run every 10 minutes and Kirkstall Road will be full of 760's with not a First bus in sight. I have the greatest admiration for your optimism Riponian but, as the saying goes, "Don't hold your breath."

[Riponian]

Blakey, I can only see Worst cutting back services and leaving the opportunity for other operators to fill in the gaps. Personally, I can also see Worst leave the Wetherby services and these being filled in by other operators. I can think of two, both with Harrogate in the name.There always seems to be an outcry when rail fares go up, but this lot have been milking us for years.

[raveydavey]

It's not hard to see why Worst are complaining about running empty buses.I was in Otley today and was surprised to see that the 965 Weston Newall Circular, which used to be operated by an Optare Solo(?) minibus is now being operated by a full sized nearly new double decker, clearly recently displaced from the X84 at the last service reduction judging by the decals all over it.Not only was it running nearly empty on the 3 times it passed us (we were at Wharfe Meadows Park with the nephews) and would seem unsuitable for the roads it was being used on, but the running costs must be significantly higher than one of the smaller buses too. It's clearly overkill using a 70+ seater bus on this route.And I note that the 'normal' type driver only operated buses are starting to be used on the 4 route again in Leeds in increasing numbers, rather than the purple slugs.

[BLAKEY]

raveydavey wrote: It's not hard to see why Worst are complaining about running empty buses.I was in Otley today and was surprised to see that the 965 Weston Newall Circular, which used to be operated by an Optare Solo(?) minibus is now being operated by a full sized nearly new double decker, clearly recently displaced from the X84 at the last service reduction judging by the decals all over it.Not only was it running nearly empty on the 3 times it passed us (we were at Wharfe Meadows Park with the nephews) and would seem unsuitable for the roads it was being used on, but the running costs must be significantly higher than one of the smaller buses too. It's clearly overkill using a 70+ seater bus on this route.And I note that the 'normal' type driver only operated buses are starting to be used on the 4 route again in Leeds in increasing numbers, rather than the purple slugs.                         .........................................................I agree raveydavey that it seems ludicrous to the layman at a glance, but believe me it is actually a master move by the very clever "First." The new buses are in no way displaced from the X84. In a very wily calculated manner they have reduced the Leeds - Otley section of X84 from every fifteen minutes to every twenty, thereby increasing the layover time of the "Otley only" journeys sufficiently to allow those vehicles to operate the 965. At the same time the former separate Newall and Weston estate services have been combined into the new 965 which covers both areas every trip every half hour with no capacity problems. While the roads are far from ideal for a large bus, the outward route was altered to go via Manor Square instead of Courthouse Street with its nigh on impossible left turn. Believe it or not there are no other real difficulties on the routes even with these huge vehicles. During the evenings and, I believe Sundays but not sure, the 965 is covered similarly by large buses laying over on the 33/33A routes from Leeds via Guiseley.So while on the surface the scheme appears to be "overkill" it is quite the opposite and must be saving them a fortune, and there is the fringe advantage of easier access for wheelchairs and buggies I suppose. As many friends know, I despise "First" and have no time at all for their cynical practices and "marketing" tactics from which its obvious that they think the Public are dopey and a gullible "pushover". Having said that though I felt I must just clarify that the Otley move is quite simply a master plan in their favour. Also in the equation of course is the enormous saving in withdrawing the comparatively expensive to buy and run midibuses (the industry name for any vehicle somwhere between a Transit size van and a big bus).All this interesting question takes me back to my happy days at Samuel Ledgard's Otley and Ilkley depots in the 1950s/60s. In those days of healthy patronage Weston Estate was served half hourly from the Bus Station by a heavily laden double decker, and Newall half hourly by an equally busy double decker on the through "cross town" service from the Westbourne Estate on Bradford Road via Manor Square (not touching the Bus Station.)