Transpennine Express -

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 9:54 am

The government is supporting Network Rail in electrifying the north-Transpennine route between Manchester and Leeds. It will cut journey times between Liverpool and Newcastle by 45 minutes

Riponian · Post by **Riponian** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 12:20 pm

It's not going to have that much an effect without some improvements to the capacity. There are good number of bottlenecks on the route that would need a lot of work to clear, such as Standedge Tunnel - they have mooted reusing the single bores that were taken out of use.However I do think we would fall foul of the usual government criteria for thsi sort of investment, ie we're north of Watford.

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 12:38 pm

Brunel wrote: The government is supporting Network Rail in electrifying the north-Transpennine route between Manchester and Leeds. It will cut journey times between Liverpool and Newcastle by 45 minutes Its one thing supporting it,but another funding it.Im not familiar with the route from Leeds to Liverpool but i am from Leeds to Newcastle.Electrification would be welcome,but i can assure you there is no way that even 10% of the proposed 45 minutes could be made between Leeds and Newcastle unless you raise the linespeed,which is only going to happen with a completely new line capable of 125mph all the way between Leeds and York.The linespeeds are pretty good actually,Leeds to York,15 mph within platform,25mph from platform end to Kirkgate,35mph Kirkgate to Quarry Hill jcn,45mph to Marsh Lane jcn,55 mph to Neville Hill,then progressive 70,80 and 90 mph to Crossgates.90 mph to Church Fenton north jcn (with a 70 through Micklefield jcn,and 85 through Church Fenton itself)then 100 mph all the way to York,with a gradual 90 down 60 then 30 into the station.So if the time savings can be made between Leeds and Liverpool then it will not just be electrification and new electric traction that will save the time,it would be huge infrastucture changes.I wont hold my breath

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 1:14 pm

This is what puzzles me about this plan.Most TPE trains run through Leeds from places like Hull and Newcastle, then through Manchester and on to places like Liverpool.So why only electrify the middle bit?Surely you'll end up with a load of through diesel trains under expensive electric wires? Or are the proposing everyone changes trains at Leeds?A better plan would be to electrify from Manchester to York, then at least you'd do away with the pointless gap that was left from Leeds - York when the ECML was electrified, plus you could run a lot more trains on a "through" basis.It's also a concern to note that the plan makes no provision for new rolling stock. It was implied on the BBC that the required electric trains may be older units displaced from London and the South East when they get new trains down there, whilst at the minute the TPE train fleet is a custom built modern design.

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 1:23 pm

I believe there is an existing proposal to electrify Manchester - Liverpool, so this might be viewed as the "middle bit" completion.

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 2:14 pm

Plus.. The Missing Electric Link.Neville Hill to Colton Jnc.?

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 3:46 pm

cnosni wrote: Electrification would be welcome,but i can assure you there is no way that even 10% of the proposed 45 minutes could be made between Leeds and Newcastle unless you raise the linespeed,which is only going to happen with a completely new line capable of 125mph all the way between Leeds and York. I suppose I've averaged 3 or 4 return journeys per year across the pennines over the last 3 or 4 years but only one was then on to Liverpool. My abiding memory of the TPE between Picadily and Huddersfield, and vice verse, is that it appears to be coasting most of the time as opposed to anything like flat out. Stalybridge is the only scheduled stop and yes there are 3 or 4 commuter stations too but acceleration and deceleration around these seems to be preyty minimal.

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 9:32 pm

30,000 jobs according to Look North who also confirm the "North of Waford" argument. The "new" carriages for these trains will be 20+ year old rolling stock from down sarf where this rolling stock will be repalced with...........................................yep brand new rolling stock

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 9:41 pm

Makes you wonder where all those almost new, specifically engineered and ordered for TPE, diesel engined Class 185's will go, doesn't it?

Post by **mhoulden** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 2:11 am

Will they also be electrifying the Ordsall Curve when that gets built?After commuting from Manchester every day for 5 months when I got a job in Leeds but had to let the lease on my flat run out I found the biggest issues were the slow curve at Guide Bridge, and the ludicrous number of people travelling from Huddersfield. It was bad enough when the trains had 3 carriages but beyond a joke when it had 2 and couldn't stop at Dewsbury. You could probably knock 5 - 10 mins off the journey time by having a Leeds -> Mcr express that didn't stop at Huddersfield, and redesigning the Guide Bridge curve so trains could go round a bit after.