Have Our Transport Planners Lost the Plot? (If indeed they ever found one)

[tyke bhoy]

Cardiarms wrote: I've never under stood the point of a 'guided bus'. Am I missing something or would a dedicated bus lane do the same job? There is plenty on other threads showing most are against guided bus ways. I think the only plus point is they can't be abused by unauthorised traffic or by being parked in like bus lanes. The minus points start with being very expensive and rarely cover enough distance on a route to make much difference while chewing up grass verge or other greenery. Bus lanes with more enforcement of penalty's for those that abuse especially blocking by parking in them are the answer. Yes the bus will never tempt the snobs out of their cars but without a light-rail under/over/above ground solution which we will not get in the current economic climate its the best we can do

[Cardiarms]

I meant dedicated in the way of a 9 inch kerb between the bus and the road. I there's a driver at the wheel he can drive the bus instead of fancy stuff.

[tyke bhoy]

Cardiarms wrote: I meant dedicated in the way of a 9 inch kerb between the bus and the road. I there's a driver at the wheel he can drive the bus instead of fancy stuff. Sorry I didn't realise you meant a kerb in the way but I suspect 'elth and safety would never allow a 9 inch kerb in a roadway

[jim]

Keg, you ask "so what if Sheffield and the Midlands have them". The answer and the point is that Light Rail actually succeeds in addressing the problems. the other options don't.    

[tyke bhoy]

jim wrote: Keg, you ask "so what if Sheffieild and the Midlands have them". The answer and the point is that they actually succeed in addressing the problems. the other options don't. As mentioned at the moment the economic climate precludes any new project getting of the ground and I hope that extends to the existing trolley bus proposal which is ill thought out especially on the routes selected. the new Kirkstall station project seems likely to be shelved too

[Keg]

Three points, 1) Not all car owners are snobs, for most it's essential. Also, bear this in mind. One of the papers recently worked out the quickest, least polluting and most economical way to get 4 people from London to Birmingham was in a 1.9tdi VW Passat. Until this changes we will continue to use cars.2) Whether it's a guided bus, dedicated bus lane etc i don't mind what we call it as long as the bus has its own lane unencumbered with parked cars etc.For my sins i travel round most of the uk on a regular basis and can assure you that the LR & tram systems in the cities mentioned have not eased traffic. The queues into Sheffield and anywhere in teh midlands at peak time are still horrendous.Lets not forget that the supertram that our socialist republican neighbours built along with their approach to cheap fares nearly bankrupted the city.

[tyke bhoy]

Keg wrote: Three points, 1) Not all car owners are snobs, for most it's essential. Also, bear this in mind. One of the papers recently worked out the quickest, least polluting and most economical way to get 4 people from London to Birmingham was in a 1.9tdi VW Passat. Until this changes we will continue to use cars. Sorry I certainly never intended to insinuate all car drivers are snobs, I know some require them for work my wife is one of them. We live near Wakefield, she primarily works in South West Bradford but can be called to anywhere in West Yorkshire on the day. What I am referring to is the drivers of Single Occupancy Vehicles that start on or very close to a bus/train route and often park further away from work than the other end of that bus/train route and have no need for their vehicle until they go home again.Yes multi occupancy vehicles are more efficient but as I commute usually on the top deck of a bus I can tell that 80%+ of non bus vehicles I see on that commute are single occupancy and most of the rest are only dual

[jim]

Hi Keg, please don't think I'm a snob because it offends me when some users of public transport play loud music, put their feet on the seats, punctuate every third word with obscenities at the top of their voices, ad loudly tell the world of their adventures with the police and the courts. My problem with this is that they always demand "respect", yet have none for others.Your point about car journeys from London to Birmingham is accepted. I doubt that the same is true for journeys of two to ten miles.As I've never been to Sheffield, only through it, I can't comment on what you say about its Supertram, but would agree that such systems will not remove traffic congestion. Under any set of circumstances road traffic will increase - because of its convenience, not its cost - until serious congestion occurs. At that point motorists will scream for more, wider, and de-restricted roads, and for more, closer to the centre, and cheaper parking. It's a vicious circle. Unless a viable alternative can be found our inner cities will eventually become unviable. There are two alternatives.Move more services, employment, and shops to the periphery of cities, which is happening , but inevitably Green Belts suffer, and naturally it isn't possible to continue along these lines indefinitely. The second is to create viable transport links that actually succeed in doing what is required - to entice the largest possible number of people ( and particularly commuters ) out of their cars. Light Rail is far and away the best and most successful ( although certainly not the cheapest ) way of achieving that.As to Sheffields financial problems, they go back far before Supertram. The Independent Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire spent years of buying votes with money they hadn't got back in the mists of time. ( As my Missus was in a previous life an election agent - Labour of course - for a South Yorkshire constituency, I'd better keep my head down and not let her see this! ) Historically, Supertram was a drop in the bucket to them, and, like their arena, whatever they called that all-singing, all-dancing failed Music Facility, and various other projects they got large sums of Government ( read our ) money to fund it.Your turn!     

[raveydavey]

Only 12 minutes tonight. Mind you it was before 5pm....

[tyke bhoy]

raveydavey wrote: Only 12 minutes tonight. Mind you it was before 5pm.... Again no problems this morning but it was "friday traffic" on the way out circa 4.45 I noticed a bit of a backlog on Neville Street. Also the inside lane on Great Wilson Street was chocca due to a backlog on Meadow lane norhtbound. Whether the Meadow lane backlog was due to Meadow Lane, Swinegate or Lower Briggate I could only guess but unless changes are made Swinegate back on to Meadow Lane may well become a frequent occurence for the gridlock