Osmandthorpe Hall (and tunnel!)

[weenie]

Well my son went to Temple newsome today, and i mentioned to his teacher as i was unable to attend, about this tunnel, so his teacher said she would mention this, So they asked the educational tour person who said YES there is a tunnel apparently in the furthest back room ? ( couldnt remember which room it was because with 5 children round ya ankles)

[chameleon]

weenie wrote: Well my son went to Temple newsome today, and i mentioned to his teacher as i was unable to attend, about this tunnel, so his teacher said she would mention this, So they asked the educational tour person who said YES there is a tunnel apparently in the furthest back room ? ( couldnt remember which room it was because with 5 children round ya ankles) From another thread -Steve JonesUser Location: WakefieldJoined on: 18-Jan-2008 19:11:33Posted: 603 posts # Posted on: 11-Apr-2008 12:58:42.    Delete | Edit | Quote I went round the house at Samhain on a ghost hunt which included going down into the extensive cellars on a guided tour and the same question cropped up. No tunnels to anywhere I am afraid!Lovely big spooky cellars though. I've been on a tour down there too and of course took the chance to look closely... nothing apparant to be seen, quite shallow under most of the house and even at ground level at the front - little scope for anything of depth emerging.It is not too ar away from Osmandthorpe and the area is of course riddled with mine workings, wonder if the resulting tunnels could hve lead to this theory. Maybe GRUMPYTRAMP has a thought, at least in terms of the geological likelihood?

[grumpytramp]

chameleon wrote: Maybe GRUMPYTRAMP has a thought, at least in terms of the geological likelihood? I don't really want to spoil everyone’s fun ......... but the idea of a medieval tunnel connecting Templenewsam House and Osmandthorpe Hall is fantasy.Just consider the practicality of excavating a tunnel approximately 3.1km. That tunnel would have to rise from ground laying at approximately 213' above sea level at Osmandthorpe to reach Templenewsam with ground level at 247' above sea level ......... but have drop some depth below the invert level of Wyke Beck (say 115' sea level). To drive a tunnel precisely between the two cellars over 3.1km is a difficult enough engineering challenge in 2010, in medieval times, I very much doubt it.Then of course had it been even practical to drive such a tunnel in the superficial deposits it would need to be lined, with brick or stone (take brick by way of example – simple tunnel dimensions 3,100m x say 1.5m x say 1m = 4650m2; typical medieval brick say 0.012m2/brick; total bricks required 387,500 ........... a vast quantity which would have been recorded and obviously not deliverable in secret). I have no idea how or what technology they could have use to drain the sump below Wyke Beck and of course it would have been uncovered by Victorian antiquarians when constructing the railway cuttings by Osmonthorpe or by sewer engineers constructing waste water systems to the waterworks.In rock, it would have been a massive undertaking; that would have driven cross measures through the East Leeds Coalfield exposing countless seams of coal which would have rendered any tunnel far greater value as a colliery access than as a secret passage. Then of course it would have required constant maintenance (coals are liable to oxidise ultimately leading to spontaneous combustion, shales weaken as they oxidise, water further weakens exposed shales and fireclays will swell in contact with water sufficiently in certain conditions to close a tunnel in a matter of weeks) , ventilation (sumps of course will fill with Blackdamp) and the afore mentioned issue of drainage. Oh I musn’t forget despite the intensive exploitation from the myriad of collieries and extensive opencast coal mining no such tunnel was ever encounteredWhile I could imagine the medieval houses at Templenewsam and Osmondthorpe having a bolt hole through the cellars for speedy escapes in difficult times; a tunnel between the two is just fantasy.With regards your clipping, I can perhaps offer an alternative explanation for the bricked up passage in the cellars .......... could what lay beyond be simply part of the original medieval halls cellars outwith the footprint of 19th Century building?

[chameleon]

Thought that might be a good call, thanks Grumpytramp, you've done some serious work there I think and confirm what most of us really suspect to be the case anyway.The clipping doesn't say does it, whether the writer speaks of the old or the new hall, there were two - it is not unlikely that your suggestion of an overlap subground of the two adjacent footprints has some validity and offers an explanation for what was seen - at least the clipping wasn't from the YEP!

[Cardiarms]

I suppose he'll be using such wild ideas to dispel the existance of the Kirkstall tunnel as well. ;D

[chameleon]

Cardiarms wrote: I suppose he'll be using such wild ideas to dispel the existance of the Kirkstall tunnel as well. ;D No altogether different kettle of fish. Trouble there was, when it joined up with the tunnel form osmandthorpe, all the water from Wyke Beck flooded it and an errant water wheel floating by blocked it totally

[Leodian]

I used to live near where Osmondthorpe Hall was and regularly played there and nearby gardens in the late 1940s to early 1950s. I don't remember seeing anything there that would have looked fun to get into, such as a tunnel. Mind you I don't recall ever hearing any tales then of a tunnel to Templenewsam or anywhere! I just hope I never missed finding a tunnel, but I doubt it. Our nearby garden was very clayey and any hole dug soon filled with water so any near surface tunnel digging would likely have been out of the question!

[chameleon]

Leodian wrote: I used to live near where Osmondthorpe Hall was and regularly played there and nearby gardens in the late 1940s to early 1950s. I don't remember seeing anything there that would have looked fun to get into, such as a tunnel. Mind you I don't recall ever hearing any tales then of a tunnel to Templenewsam or anywhere! I just hope I never missed finding a tunnel, but I doubt it. Our nearby garden was very clayey and any hole dug soon filled with water so any near surface tunnel digging would likely have been out of the question! There! ya see, told ya - that'll be the water from Wyke Beck    

[beanoboy]

To clarify, Osmondthorpe Old Hall (photos on Leodis) was built in the 1620s and demolished in the 1930s, this was situated on Osmondthorpe Lane opposite Ings Road. The first hall dated back to the 11th/12th century.The other Osmondthorpe Hall was buiolst some time in the 18th century and was located where the YMCA stood, it burnt down in 1924.The gate post still exists, the Old Hall was built by the Osmunds (the name is pure coincedence) the last of these married into the Skelton family in the 1480s.The new Hall was build by the Motleys, wool staplers and passed into the hands of the Robinson family in I think the 1820s.There ws coal mine on the black hills, which was accessed from the black hills. The ginnel that runs through Ossie from the school to near York Road was the mineral line for movong coal. The coal workings are probably the nearest thing to a tunnel connecting Osmondthorpe and Temple Newsam.