Pubs closing NOW- in our time.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 3:16 pm

Reginal Perrin wrote: uncle mick wrote: Reginal Perrin wrote: Buck (White Hart) in Woddlesford still boarded up rather than the Indian Restaurant as was mooted. For Sale circa £300,000 with Fleurets Must have fallen through then. It's a big pub. £300k would be alright if it was a free house but I bet it's tied to some stupid contract. Los of parking, I can see why a resaturant would want it.Be nice if a Crown Carvery got it, £3.59 a playe, very nice. It's 300K Freehold

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 3:42 pm

Is it any wonder pubs are closing when it's virtually £10 for three pints in a pub and you can get three cases of ale for £18 at any of the big supermarkets at any time.Has there ever been such a difference in the price of beer?Surely pubs need to get a grip on the prices and get prices down to attract more trade?

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 5:11 pm

Reginal Perrin wrote: Is it any wonder pubs are closing when it's virtually £10 for three pints in a pub and you can get three cases of ale for £18 at any of the big supermarkets at any time.Has there ever been such a difference in the price of beer?Surely pubs need to get a grip on the prices and get prices down to attract more trade? It's not the pubs that need to get a grip on their prices,it's the pub companies. They have you "over a barrel" with the price they charge for their products (which you are tied to buy) plus inflated rents etc.

DOBBO · Post by **DOBBO** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 5:49 pm

This is a really interesting thread but there are several changes which have taken place in ''life in general'' which have brought us to the point we are now(in my opinion) and having worked in various aspects of the business for almost 40 years these have to be accepted.The first started by the goverment of the day was the unlocking of domestic property values in the early eighties which was seen by the larger breweries as a chance to create ready money and by property speculators to create large retail empires - so we end up with two classic examples - the Punch Tavern Company which employed some pretty slippy bookkeeping to buy property and immediately revalue it thus creating a huge paper profit to underpin further borrowing to buy more property and increase retail income - this of course didn't work so to keep the income high they increase prices. This also gave a false impression of prosperity which the government seized on to hike the taxes on alcohol.The second example and evidence of this is the example of Whitbread which is not even in brewing now but is a ''brand'' management company.The buying power of Tesco and their ilk has produced not only the phenomenon of less than cost price bargains but a definite incentive to drink at home which further eroded the place of the pub in the community.The few breweries which still hold estates and retail only their own products are still value for money - Sam Smiths is the best example but Thwaites are not too bad.Here in Knaresborough where there are still plenty of pubs is the same as Leeds - hardly any customers. Even the old fashioned clubs are struggling.Lastly and most sadly the younger folks seem to drink to get smashed in clubs and are only the victims of the advertisers who want to sell spirit based brain killers.As a keen billiard playing club and pub man I can only assume the the change is irreversible

drapesy · Post by **drapesy** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 7:09 pm

there's work going on at The Crown on Lowtown Pudsey - though wether its going to reopen as a pub I dont know.I do know that the Junction in Pudsey has served its last pint ' however - its being converted to commercial premises

Si · Post by Si » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 8:35 pm

Work continues at the Bowling Green, Otley. The new side door looks like a permanent fixture, and an oak built extension is being added to the rear, but I can't see it being finished by the 25th of this month, as promised...Maybe it will be open for the next World Cup?

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 9:52 pm

Reginal Perrin wrote: Is it any wonder pubs are closing when it's virtually £10 for three pints in a pub and you can get three cases of ale for £18 at any of the big supermarkets at any time.Has there ever been such a difference in the price of beer?Surely pubs need to get a grip on the prices and get prices down to attract more trade? There was an article in several papers last week, stating that Tesco was making a loss of "9p per litre" on those multibuy packs of beer.That would be the same Tesco that was calling for a minimum price for alcohol the week before.If a company with the buying power of Tesco is selling beer at a loss, purely to get you into the store, then I fail to see how many pubs, especialy locals can compete. That is before you consider the ridiculous "ties" that most of the pub companies have with the pub tenants, meaning that they are forced to buy the beer from their pub co at 20% or more above the open market rate.The simple solution is to outlaw the selling of alcohol for off sales at a loss, which would stop the supermarkets in their tracks.

liits · Post by **liits** » Mon 07 Jun, 2010 11:38 pm

DOBBO wrote: so we end up with two classic examples - the Punch Tavern Company which employed some pretty slippy bookkeeping to buy property and immediately revalue it thus creating a huge paper profit to underpin further borrowing to buy more property and increase retail income - this of course didn't work so to keep the income high they increase prices. This also gave a false impression of prosperity which the government seized on to hike the taxes on alcohol.The second example and evidence of this is the example of Whitbread which is not even in brewing now but is a ''brand'' management company. Good example, Punch Taverns.The cow, Karen Jones and her side-kick, Giles Thorley, asset strippers par excellence. Problem was they covered it by buying up huge swathes of managed estates being off loaded by the likes of Whitbread and Scottish & Newcastle and passed it off in the guise of selling them on as leasehold properties and screwing over the leaseholders. She was the reason I and may of my former colleagues got out of managing pubs and bought leasehold [but not one of hers].As to the point that Reginald Perrin made about £10 for three pints.....the problem is the price you have to pay for the beer you’re tied in to. Fine, if you can buy a few sneakies from the wholesalers, but the good old flow-meter doesn’t let you get away with too many of them.I know it’s improbable and many of us would never change over to them but the things a publican makes the most money on are soft drinks and wine. To maintain a decent margin and make beer a worthwhile, stockable item, you have to pile the price on. Hence, three pints for a tenner.

Uno Hoo · Post by **Uno Hoo** » Tue 08 Jun, 2010 12:11 am

liits wrote: DOBBO wrote: so we end up with two classic examples - the Punch Tavern Company which employed some pretty slippy bookkeeping to buy property and immediately revalue it thus creating a huge paper profit to underpin further borrowing to buy more property and increase retail income - this of course didn't work so to keep the income high they increase prices. This also gave a false impression of prosperity which the government seized on to hike the taxes on alcohol.The second example and evidence of this is the example of Whitbread which is not even in brewing now but is a ''brand'' management company. Good example, Punch Taverns.The cow, Karen Jones and her side-kick, Giles Thorley, asset strippers par excellence. Problem was they covered it by buying up huge swathes of managed estates being off loaded by the likes of Whitbread and Scottish & Newcastle and passed it off in the guise of selling them on as leasehold properties and screwing over the leaseholders. She was the reason I and may of my former colleagues got out of managing pubs and bought leasehold [but not one of hers].As to the point that Reginald Perrin made about £10 for three pints.....the problem is the price you have to pay for the beer you’re tied in to. Fine, if you can buy a few sneakies from the wholesalers, but the good old flow-meter doesn’t let you get away with too many of them.I know it’s improbable and many of us would never change over to them but the things a publican makes the most money on are soft drinks and wine. To maintain a decent margin and make beer a worthwhile, stockable item, you have to pile the price on. Hence, three pints for a tenner. I've known for years that soft drinks are profitable for pubs, which ironically does not encourage drivers not to drink - the orange juice, pint for pint, tends to cost more than the beer. I'm teetotal, so my tipple in pubs tends to be blackcurrant and soda. I keep a tally of what I get charged. Cheapest is 30p, most expensive £2.65. The latter, by anyone's standards, is a rip-off. Averages out at £1.20 - I don't mind paying that, as I've never expected pubs to be as cheap as clubs, and certainly not supermarkets. However, were I to drink Coke (Yuk, dreadful stuff), or Britvic, prices rise astronomically.

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Tue 08 Jun, 2010 11:32 am

Let me just clear this up. I am not blaming publicans per se but hey are part of the process that delivers the 3 pints for a tenner to the consumer. Sam Smiths, Wetherspoons, Crown Carveries, all seem to have a model that delivers value in either drink or food or both. Pubs like The Angel in Robin Hood manage to sell John Smiths for less than two quid whilst all the pubs nearby are £2.50 or over. I love pubs, I really like nothing more than a few beers an a chat but it should not be a significant financial decision to pop out for a few beers. It should be routine.