Leeds trolley buses set to get the go ahead!

[cnosni]

Some links to preferred routes for TBusFill yer boots boyshttp://www.ngtmetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/6DC96965- ... ityHub.pdf

[Phill_dvsn]

My prefered route option for the Tbus is herehttp://snipurl.com/v1ikh    

[chameleon]

Phill_dvsn wrote: My prefered route option for the Tbus is herehttp://snipurl.com/v1ikh     ahhhh, I at least expected a shot of a rear anatomy depicting a large central orifice Phill

[Loiner1960]

Yes exactly MorLee? Thinglee, East Hardslee... About what LCC think of us. Any road up. Trolley bus on A660 Otley Road, Headingley Lane. Where is it going to have "Dedicated lanes." Knocking down or building on the gardens on this road? As for the Stourton "Park and Ride" again where and why? The tram sheds were opposite where First Direct now sits on the old Waddingtons site. It would seem that LCC thinks that road widths are elastic from the idea's they come up with. Hopefully this will all just be more pie in the sky rubbish. A study was undertaken by leading academics in the 1960's on road access into a city centre. They chose Leeds. It was found out that to give access to everywhere would mean so many roads that there would be nothing left to go to! So that is why the plan for inner ring road and car parks such as Woodhouse came about. Now Leeds has lost so many highways no wonder there is gridlocked traffic. Examples. Roscoe Junction. An entire area of houses, shops and pubs destroyed for a load of interchanges on roads. Result. More cars passing through.End of the M1/M621/Dewsbury Road. Again area demolished and just roads.Trolley buses weigh just as much as a diesel bus so road wear will be about the same. There is the catenary infrastructure to build. The sub stations and rectification equipment to site and supply. Servicing depots to build. Will it be a bendy type single decker or will a proper double decker car be designed and built. Will it be woth loosing large parts of Leeds just so a few extra users from North Leeds travel a couple of minutes quicker into the centre? And it will be marginal on any gains. Worst seem to think they have a shoe-in but under EU law this will have to be put out to tender. So what happens if Worst do not win. Buses clogging Trolley routes to slow them down. It happens. There never was a rail link to Cookridge or Lawnswood as the trams were used a lot as car usage was tiny. Now car usage is the main form and the alternatives just don't "fit" the life we lead in the 21st century. Perhaps LCC is missing a trick. Trolley buses, trams, buses diesel or LPG/Ethanol, are paid for out of general taxation. Why not as O2 do at present and run company buses. LCC could run its own service for its workers in the centre. Joint company buses for other companies. So rather than generalizing the cost, be specific. The companies and LCC in general are the main problem for congestion. Now that could be a Worst on Non-Arrive as franchises or is this just too sensible. Just look at what Beeching destroyed...Now there was an integrated system if only there had been the vision and the money. http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co ... kshire.htm

[Trojan]

Cardiarms wrote: Morwhere? quite.

[Keg]

Trojan, we have just as many and a far higher class of pothole in north Leeds. I run a Landrover Defender, and have had smoother off road jaunts than driving on our current roads.I believe that the supertram was due to run up to the left of the A660 as you were coming out of Leeds and it was due to run behind the Arndale centre.Lets face it, most ( and i do stress most, not all ) will like their own car.Simple as that

[BLAKEY]

I must be brief here in making this point on which I could talk and illustrate for hours, but in the endless debate about trams/trolleybuses/diesel buses/minibuses/road widening etc etc nobody seems to DARE to mention one of the very major causes of poor punctuality of bus services. Well here goes, and this is from long personal experience in the industry as well as daily observation as an exasperated passenger - a terrifying and incredible lack of passenger co-operation. Someone needs to have the guts to loudly point out the vital difference between OMNIBUS (literally meaning "for all") and TAXI (which effectively means "especially for me.").I suggest that the old maxim "The customer is always right" cannoit possibly fit in entirely successfully with road transport operation, as desirable an intention though it may well be. Here are just a few almost universal setbacks to punctual operation :-Passengers totally unaware and unconcerned as to the schedule of the serivce.People arriving late at the stop, just as a vehicle struggling to maintain or recover time is about to pull away, with no money or pass ready and no idea if it is even going where they want to be - then begins the fishing in pockets and purses for perhaps a twenty pound note.Stubborn folks standing at the bottom of the stairs or near the front wheel arches rather than sitting down because "I'm only going a couple of stops"- passenger flow in and out brought to a halt, allowing more unprepared latecomers to stroll up.The recent construction of vehicles to allow wheelchair access (very commendable but sadly rarely used) and the total and arrogant abuse of the "buggy" space - frequently there are two enormous oversized buggies widely overloaded with enough accoutrementsfor a month's seaside holiday - these totally and dangerously block the gangway and staircase and bring passenger flow (in and ou) to a virtual standstill - and we won't here go into the blockage of virtually the only escape route for around ninety passengers in the event of an emergency (collision, engine fire etc)Two other major factors in the enormous problem of providing reliable services are in the hands of the operators themselves.1) While I'm usually open to debate I do remain stubbornly adamant on this point (from many years actual experience) - the disastrous single doorway bus. There is much unjustified "hype" about accidents while boarding and alighting from "centre exit" vehicles but this is wildly exaggerated "spin." All that is needed is due care and diligence by drivers - after all if you fail to apply the brakes the bus will run into a shop front etc - the job must be done properly. Centre, or slightly forward of the centre, exits are vital to allow any passenger flow both at busy stops and eevn to an extent on tightly timed longer routed. Even in dark Winter weather with rain etc I never once had any incident with the centre exits - and it is a fact that in Leeds in the mid 1970s the Management reluctantly agreed with the Union that the newly introduced single doorway buses (the 6000s to those in the know) would not be used on extremely busy routes like the then 44 (Halton Moor - Stanningley) and 74/76 (Moor Grange - Belle Isle/Middleton) - I rest my case on that.2) The very desirable but totally impractical advice now displayed in buses - "Passenger safety - ring the bell once and remain seated until the bus stops." Very laudable indeed, especially for the hanidcapped and elderly, but completely unworkable under the present system.I hope this hasn't given rise to the impression that I was one of the "Leave 'em all running" and " throw 'em all of the seats at every stop and corner" brigade because I wasn't. I put great store by driving decently - often running unashamedly late as a result on impossible schedules. I took much stick over the years, mainly good natured but some quite nasty, because of my refusal to let standards drop (and vehicle sympathy comes into this) I'll never forget one particularly nasty elderly and loudmouthed passenger who used to regularly travel from Three Lane Ends at Castleford into Leeds. Even when I was spot on time he would sit near the front and spend the whole journey loudly making snide remarks about "I think this fella only knows where first gear is" and "somebody tell 'im to tek 'andbrake off." I stood this for years until one quiet day I'd really had enough and, arriving at Tetley's Brewery in Crown Point Road with three minutes remaining for the one clear stop into the Bus Station, I quietly left the cab and went to him, pointed out the very punctual running and perfectly smooth comfortable ride he'd had, and asked him what his complaint was - total silence, and not an iota of support from the passengers eitherSo this is a very deep seated and complex problem of mutual understanding which really needs addressing bravely from all sides - and no trolleybuses, nuclear trams or anything else will solve it simply. Perhaps the railways have the harsh but right idea - "Train doors will close up to one minute before departure" - and they do HAVE their own roads where a minute or two delay can soon be put right.Sorry, I promised to be be brief but its a general injustice that I feel very strongly about - both when I was driving and now as a very frequent passenger.    

[Loiner1960]

cnosni wrote: Some links to preferred routes for TBusFill yer boots boyshttp://www.ngtmetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/6DC96965- ... ityHub.pdf So the same old rubbish for an A660 route. I seem to remember this being planned in the 1930's. Seems reality doesn't matter. A great big long slug of a trolley bus able to take hairpin bends! Nice to see Cookridge Street back to two way traffic. Pity Woodhouse Moor will loose all those flower beds and pavement. Nice turn at the bottom of the Headrow! That massive drop will have to be filled in. Oh and bye bye coach part of Leeds City bus station. Park Row two way and all that pedestrianization gone. Looking closer there is only one reason for the North route. Students! Why terminate before Lawnswood Cemetery? Where LCC built a tram terminus. Oh Bodington Hall. So Leeds Uni and Leeds Met can put up some money for this hair brained scheme. And limited stops, yeh great idea, what the buses won't be running...Please let this fail it's the same junk we've been given for 40 years. Loss of Grade II* listed buidings and green fields for what benefit?

[cnosni]

Loiner1960 wrote: cnosni wrote: Some links to preferred routes for TBusFill yer boots boyshttp://www.ngtmetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/6DC96965- ... ityHub.pdf So the same old rubbish for an A660 route. I seem to remember this being planned in the 1930's. Seems reality doesn't matter. A great big long slug of a trolley bus able to take hairpin bends! Nice to see Cookridge Street back to two way traffic. Pity Woodhouse Moor will loose all those flower beds and pavement. Nice turn at the bottom of the Headrow! That massive drop will have to be filled in. Oh and bye bye coach part of Leeds City bus station. Park Row two way and all that pedestrianization gone. Looking closer there is only one reason for the North route. Students! Why terminate before Lawnswood Cemetery? Where LCC built a tram terminus. Oh Bodington Hall. So Leeds Uni and Leeds Met can put up some money for this hair brained scheme. And limited stops, yeh great idea, what the buses won't be running...Please let this fail it's the same junk we've been given for 40 years. Loss of Grade II* listed buidings and green fields for what benefit? Your vote in the general election!!Then pull the plugI suppose there are always going to be casualties in any new transport infrastructure.Look what happened when the viaduct from Marsh Lane to what is nhow Leeds EAst was built,it cut a swathe through the town which necessitated the almost complete demolition of the 3rd White Cloth Hall.The mooted HS2 will be required to cut through the Chilterns and god knows how many woods and fields.Its a price we have to balance,on the face of it the return that TBus will provide will not be such a big benefit to most.

[simong]

I don't think trams would have been any better to be honest. They would be far more expensive to develop and the routes are the same as the proposed trolleybuses without the option to divert if there is trouble. The main advantage that electric powered public transport has is lower kerbside emissions, which probably gives First some credit in reducing their carbon bill. My experience of the Manchester tram system is that it's certainly done well in opening up some parts of the city - Salford Quays wouldn't be as successful without it for sure, but in the city centre it breaks far too easily - a couple of years ago, thousands of Rangers fans descended on the city to see Rangers v ManU on the big screens in Piccadilly Gardens and the tram service was suspended not least because at least one drunk gers fan passed out on the line! The service is mediocre too - when I lived in Salford Quays the last tram on Sunday night was at 10:35. Sheffield is a better example as it does cover more of the city and reinforces the bus and rail services. Sheffield also built park and ride commitments into the developments at Attercliffe/Meadowhall, Crystal Peaks and Nunnery Square among others so that traffic could be reduced. Any new project without such commitments in Leeds would be next to useless, but being Leeds, it seems that it's all going to be token again.