Leeds lost pubs

Si · Post by Si » Tue 27 Oct, 2009 3:52 pm

I've had a look at the Bowling Green, it's still boarded up and surrounded by that ugly fence, but there's no sign of a sign. I heard a rumour a while back that Wetherspoons were interested in Netto's old premises, but then reverted back to the Bowling Green. We'll have to wait and see. It seems a prime location to me - on the main road (with new pedestrian crossing,) dead opposite Sainsbury's, a decent sized, interesting old building, and just around the corner from the bus station?

stutterdog · Post by **stutterdog** » Tue 27 Oct, 2009 4:46 pm

liits wrote: In my experience, while the points raised above are true, another factor which ties in with not only with the “greedy pubco’s” but also applied when brewers like Scot Co [aka Scottish Courage, Scottish and Newcastle Retail, Scottish & Newcastle, Grand Met and all of its previous guises and other big brewers] is the standard of their lower tier management. I had more than a few Area Managers who were barely old enough to drink, weren’t the sort of people who would drink in pubs anyway [trendy wine bar types] and who had absolutely no interest in the industry as a whole. They never stayed long – although they did a lot of damage in their short stays- using the job as a stepping stone to something bigger. Have a look at some of the job adverts for “Retain Area Managers” the only interest seems to be in how many “units” in this case, pubs, the person has looked after – damaged – not how successful they have been.As a manager, it was quite comforting to know that Noddy would move on within about six months or so. Problem was they’d be replaced by another 16 year old with no clue.I got sick of it and bought leasehold. It wasn’t so much the tie that made it hard [true that the price we paid for the beer was three times the price of say Bookers Wholesale or Makro] it was the business rates and the rent. £39K a year for the rates, and we lit and cleaned the street better then the council! £31K rent. [then there’s staff costs, gas, lekky blah, blah] And this is before you’ve started selling the drink.You can buy six cans of Kronenbourg in the offy for a fiver, sit in the comfort of your own home and smoke and watch SKY [£7.5K commercial license for a boozer to show third division Albanian cow pat throwing] and people wonder why pubs are closing?As an after-thought.... you want pubs to stay open? Then don't sit in watching telly and drinking cans with the "I'll go down for the last hour..." mentality. Go. Go to the pub! Take the wife [leave the kids] have a drink. Have a belly full! I know, it's expensive but YOUR LOCAL NEEDS YOU! Hi liits, trouble is since I retired I cant afford to go out drinking much as the fuel price rises have taken all my spare cash.I only go to the Con club playing snooker once a month now for this reason. It's a struggle on the pension.( i never thought I'd hear myself saying this)

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Tue 27 Oct, 2009 5:11 pm

Thanks for the up to date info Si and Liliysmum. Its a sad state of affairs, and very uncharacteristic of Wetherspoons as they generally "get on wi' t' job" and don't loiter about like this. Very disappointing for we old Samuel Ledgard employees as we once thought that there was a fair chance they would go along with our request to "theme it" on the old Firm directly across the road. Sadly ironic that the old premises are now "KWIKFIT" - Wetherspoons' actions have been anything but !!

tosser · Post by **tosser** » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:01 am

I have been trying to find the history of the Old Oak Tree on Leeds and Bradford road Bramley. I used it in the 60s when it was a typical estate pub that had live music and the odd wedding reception. My Mother told me that her Grandfather James Bracewellwas the Landlord there in the 1900s but the pub was called, The Buck or The Roebuck. Can anybody throw any light on this and are there any photographs knocking about.There are two lost Bramley pubs that i don't think have been spoken about . The first one is the Star and Garter which was on Bramley Town street, the other side of the road from the Barley Mow.I think it was still trading till they developed the area. The second one is the Grapes which was opposite the Unicorn. I don't remember this trading as a Pub in my life time, I can remember it being a Post Office and a Handyman shop. It was also knocked down with the redevelopment.

Si · Post by Si » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:41 am

The Grapes, Bramley (above arrow.) ^Hi Tosser. Are you Dobbie's mate? (See Old Oak Tree Pub thread.) I mentioned on there that this pub had the same name in 1908, according to the OS map. I've searched Leodis for the Old Oak Tree, The Buck/Roebuck and the Star and Garter (unless you mean the one at Kirkstall?) without much luck, though the latter is mentioned but not pictured.However, there is a 1906 pic of The Grapes, extreme right.

tosser · Post by **tosser** » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:24 am

Hi Si, you got it right in one, i am Dobbies mate. The strange thing is, that he is on holiday and is due here in about a hour.Thanks for the photo of the Grapes it looks like it was still trading.Robinsons Leeds Directory said, in 1898 the licenced victualler for The Oak Inn, 29 Leeds and Bradford Road was James Bracewell.So i don't know if it is even the same location

Si · Post by Si » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:49 am

Sounds almost certainly like the same location to me. There's a building marked on the mid 1800s tithe-map in the same place as the Old Oak Tree, but is not named. However, very few names of anything appear on these maps (see tithe maps thread.) The building also appears on the 1875 and 1910 maps too, but is not named on them either, but the Horse and Jockey, the Acorn and the Rock are.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 2:51 pm

Si wrote: Sounds almost certainly like the same location to me. There's a building marked on the mid 1800s tithe-map in the same place as the Old Oak Tree, but is not named. However, very few names of anything appear on these maps (see tithe maps thread.) The building also appears on the 1875 and 1910 maps too, but is not named on them either, but the Horse and Jockey, the Acorn and the Rock are. I have looked in the 1908 and 1923 Directories.There is no mention of a "Buck" or "Rosebuck" in both directories.In 1908 both the Star and Garter and the Grapes are listed.I can't find a Old Oak Tree in both directories

Si · Post by Si » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 3:34 pm

So to recap then, the only hard evidence we have (so far) is that there has been a building on the same site from at least 1861, and that it has been called The Old Oak Tree Inn since at least 1908. In 1898 it was The Oak Inn, licencee James Bracewell.

stutterdog · Post by **stutterdog** » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 8:59 pm

Si wrote: So to recap then, the only hard evidence we have (so far) is that there has been a building on the same site from at least 1861, and that it has been called The Old Oak Tree Inn since at least 1908. In 1898 it was The Oak Inn, licencee James Bracewell. Where was the Horse and Jockey? I've not heard of that one before.