Isle of Cynder

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Sat 07 Feb, 2009 6:10 pm

Does anybody have any info about the Isle of Cynder? A couple of channels/goits between Sovereign Street and Swinegate created an island incorporating Kings Mills, now the multistory carpark & bibis restaurant on Swinegate. It's on the 1847 map. One hefty channel about the width of Boar Lane ran right through were the Queens hall tram shed was. I'm guessing it was all filled in around the time of the station development and the dark arches or were the channels culverted?Cheers

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Sat 07 Feb, 2009 6:26 pm

They uncovered parts of the Kings mill system about 15-20 years ago? i believe. When they built on there. I think medieval timbers were found from dams and things.I guess there will be stuff awaiting to be found on what is the Soveriegn street car park?

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 07 Feb, 2009 9:18 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: They uncovered parts of the Kings mill system about 15-20 years ago? i believe. When they built on there. I think medieval timbers were found from dams and things.I guess there will be stuff awaiting to be found on what is the Soveriegn street car park? Maybe you won't have to wait too long to find out. Given the current collapse of the building trade, there are now plans afoot to turn the Soveriegn Street site (currently an open air car park) into a "city centre park". I think it's where the ill fated 'kissing towers' were going to go.There is a piece about it in tonights YEP http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 957617.jpI wonder how far down they'll be digging?

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Sat 07 Feb, 2009 10:04 pm

raveydavey wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: They uncovered parts of the Kings mill system about 15-20 years ago? i believe. When they built on there. I think medieval timbers were found from dams and things.I guess there will be stuff awaiting to be found on what is the Soveriegn street car park? Maybe you won't have to wait too long to find out. Given the current collapse of the building trade, there are now plans afoot to turn the Soveriegn Street site (currently an open air car park) into a "city centre park". I think it's where the ill fated 'kissing towers' were going to go.There is a piece about it in tonights YEP http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 957617.jpI wonder how far down they'll be digging? What a joke this city is. Talk about clutching at straws. We have a prime site location ear marked for an iconic building and now there talking about banging in a few saplings and park benches there.This is why we have purple bendy buses and other cities have first class light rail and super tram rapid transport system's in place.I do dispair.

Post by **chameleon** » Sat 07 Feb, 2009 11:37 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: raveydavey wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: They uncovered parts of the Kings mill system about 15-20 years ago? i believe. When they built on there. I think medieval timbers were found from dams and things.I guess there will be stuff awaiting to be found on what is the Soveriegn street car park? Maybe you won't have to wait too long to find out. Given the current collapse of the building trade, there are now plans afoot to turn the Soveriegn Street site (currently an open air car park) into a "city centre park". I think it's where the ill fated 'kissing towers' were going to go.There is a piece about it in tonights YEP http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 957617.jpI wonder how far down they'll be digging? What a joke this city is. Talk about clutching at straws. We have a prime site location ear marked for an iconic building and now there talking about banging in a few saplings and park benches there.This is why we have purple bendy buses and other cities have first class light rail and super tram rapid transport system's in place.I do dispair. But at the same time perhaps it says something about the state of finances if the site can be given over to a scheme that provides no return - a park instead of a9yet another) high-yielding office/apartment/hotel/ restaurant/leisure/bar/retail..... complex, particularly as its sat there empty for so long.As for those purple people-eating caterpilars - don't get me going about them. The most basic of risk assessments which our Council so often insists are a legislative requirement would illustrate how unsuitable they are to the roads they are dragged along!

BIG N · Post by **BIG N** » Sun 08 Feb, 2009 2:57 am

chameleon wrote: As for those purple people-eating caterpilars - don't get me going about them. The most basic of risk assessments which our Council so often insists are a legislative requirement would illustrate how unsuitable they are to the roads they are dragged along! Also Nick, and apologies for wandering off topic but, so unsuitable for the people actually having to use them, if you like sitting on a curved settee playing footsie with your fellow passengers then all well and good but try standing or even worse, walking towards a door, while they are in motion - theres so much open space that they are positivly dangerouse for all but the most athletic and agile of us

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Sun 08 Feb, 2009 11:26 am

We should star a thread for the purple slugs (wink).The idea of a park is ok to me, there's not a lot of open space down there for obvious reasons. Maybe the could reopen some of the goits and create some water features. Ha ha.

Bramley4woods · Post by **Bramley4woods** » Sun 08 Feb, 2009 1:23 pm

Cardiarms wrote: We should star a thread for the purple slugs (wink).The idea of a park is ok to me, there's not a lot of open space down there for obvious reasons. Maybe the could reopen some of the goits and create some water features. Ha ha. It's already being done in an area which exactly mirrors the old Leeds Stations and river/canal complex.Not here, of course, but in Utrecht in The Netherlands where the natural human aspirations for progress and a better future have not yet quite been stultified. They are planning for a doubling of passenger numbers through Utrecht Railway Station up to 100,000,000 / year over the next 20 years, and intend to cater for them by uncovering the old river which was culverted to build a tawdry concrete shopping centre 40 years ago, moving some buildings to improved sites and building a riverside park with housing accomodation.http://www.utrecht.nl/smartsite.dws?id=90404Wheras here in the UK the plans we make during the "Boom" times (Building by building, one at a time) just fall at the next "Bust". Thus at any time we are encumbered with half finished projects and blight ridden areas waiting (sometimes for 30 years, practically an adult's lifetime) for the next chance for someone with the right connections to get hold of the property and make £100,000,000.

Post by **cnosni** » Sun 08 Feb, 2009 7:29 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: They uncovered parts of the Kings mill system about 15-20 years ago? i believe. When they built on there. I think medieval timbers were found from dams and things.I guess there will be stuff awaiting to be found on what is the Soveriegn street car park? Yeah i saw the dig myself.I think they were digging just where the road goes into the carpark,so the car park isnt actually on top of it.we must remember that the mill was built on an artificial river divergance.The Aire was dammed in the middle ages specifically to produce a controlable water flow for the mill.The dam in question can still be seen.Go to Granary Wharf,then when you get on the metal bridge over the Aire just look towards the direction of the Queens hotel.In the water flow you can see what looks like a weir,it is in fact the remnants of the "High"dam.The dam was very expensive to maintain.It was a major drain (no pun intended)on the Manors finances as it was frequently breached.The Aire was not completely diverted,it still continued pretty much as it does now but with the added extra artificial tributry,which rejoined the Aire further along,thus creating an island.There is a publication by The Leeds Philosophical and Literary Society about the mill and the dig.The King's Mills, Leeds: the History and Archaeology of the Manorial Water-powered Corn Mills; by John Goodchild and Stuart Wrathmell (2002). 60 pp. The story of the medieval and later corn mills called the King's Mills, in Leeds. The site of the mills was redeveloped in the 1990s, but before this a major archaeological investigation took place. This revealed not only the massive foundations of the 18th and 19th century water and steam-powered mills, but also timbers associated with their medieval predecessors. These structural remains are linked to the written and cartographic evidence for the developments of the King's Mills from the 12th to the 20th centuries. Ive done a little drawing,from memory of course

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Tue 10 Feb, 2009 6:32 pm

Having had a look on the mapping system at work a culverted surface water drain does follow the course of one of the original channels, starting under the station, curving across the carpark and out into the river near Concordia Street, aligning with the lower channel on the sketch above. No age or material type is available indicating it's a bit old, probably a large brick sewer. Frustratingly there's no mapping of the channels unser the rest of the station.