LEEDS THE CAPTIOL OF THE NORTH

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 06 Nov, 2008 2:13 pm

Si wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: Yes you right Chris. Manchester and Liverpol do have the bad image of chavvy gun waving culture more than Leeds. I know a lot of people from other parts of the country, and I would say that their general impression of Leeds, is a city on the up and up, but with a past of grimy industrialism. The Armouries and large financial sector probably helped (whoops!)However, they still see Manchester as a more important city overall, despite the perceived guns/drugs problems.Is this the Manchester United brand at work?(Sorry to mention that, Simonm.) Yes id agree with you there Si,its because Manchester has so much going for it in leisure etc and of course becasuse of a certain sporting team.Its also been the beneficiary of numerous handouts,which Leeds has not had,so they can build places like Bridgewater Hall.They also get a shed load for transport,the tram and the congestion charging etc.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 06 Nov, 2008 2:16 pm

In a suprising way the I.R.A bombing of Manchester helped reshape that city. Massive redevelopement was carried out after that, the likes of which Leeds would never see.

Si · Post by Si » Thu 06 Nov, 2008 2:19 pm

On deciding which city is the capital of the north, it would help to define 'capital.' That would normally be an administrative centre, but as "The North" only exists geographically, then we have to look at other definitions, ie: culture, population, size, sport, etc, etc. Then it becomes totally subjective. As I said at the top of the thread, unresolvable!

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Thu 06 Nov, 2008 5:24 pm

I hate this arguments. Manchester is not a City per se, Leeds is. Manchester is a Metropolitan Borough where the Centre serves many towns and two cities. Leeds is self contained. We don't talk about West Yorkshire as a city but we may as well do if we are comparing oranges with oranges. Leeds is the 2nd largest "City" in the UK behind Birmingham. FACT. London is again the sum of two small cities and 32 boroughs.Leeds' big mistake is that we look after ourselves and don't play the poverty card and get hand outs. Hence no underground, no trams, no national sportsd centre for anything, no areana (until now it seems).I love Leeds and you can keep Manchester ans as for Liverpool, all you have to do is drive down the East Lancs Road to see how much of a dump that place is, hundens of perfectly nice houses boarded up.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 06 Nov, 2008 6:19 pm

Reginal Perrin wrote: I hate this arguments. Manchester is not a City per se, Leeds is. Manchester is a Metropolitan Borough where the Centre serves many towns and two cities. Leeds is self contained. We don't talk about West Yorkshire as a city but we may as well do if we are comparing oranges with oranges. Leeds is the 2nd largest "City" in the UK behind Birmingham. FACT. London is again the sum of two small cities and 32 boroughs.Leeds' big mistake is that we look after ourselves and don't play the poverty card and get hand outs. Hence no underground, no trams, no national sportsd centre for anything, no areana (until now it seems).I love Leeds and you can keep Manchester ans as for Liverpool, all you have to do is drive down the East Lancs Road to see how much of a dump that place is, hundens of perfectly nice houses boarded up. Those houses are all being demolished by the way.Coming in on that road is a dreadful experience,but take a left at the Rocket and you will see a different side to Liverpool,trust me.

Post by **chameleon** » Thu 06 Nov, 2008 7:45 pm

'Were other cities Lead-Leeds follows half heatedly has always been this cities unofficial motto!'It's interesting you should pick up on that one Phill, for a long time starting in the 70's 'Leeds Leads', was the motto embalazened on everything new in the city.Unfortunately of course, not everything worked as well as was dreamed, at the time, the Precincts with which you are well familliar, was one thing. Perhaps sometimes cruelly, it would be said that Leeds Leads and others get it right - a rather harsh jibe at otherwise good intentions perhaps.

Trojan · Post by **Trojan** » Sat 08 Nov, 2008 1:32 am

Si wrote: On deciding which city is the capital of the north, it would help to define 'capital.' That would normally be an administrative centre, but as "The North" only exists geographically, then we have to look at other definitions, ie: culture, population, size, sport, etc, etc. Then it becomes totally subjective. As I said at the top of the thread, unresolvable! If there is to be a capital of the North it should be the traditional one - York - the fact that there are numerous battlefields in Yorkshire Stamford Bridge, Towton, Marston Moor are only the best known, is testimony to York's importance in the past. But like the US we should IMO have a political capital - York - and an economic capital, and there the choice can only be between Manchester and Leeds. ATM the Mancs hold all the aces culturally, the IMEX, the theatres, the Lowry, the Beeb are moving many departments to neighbouring Salford, whereas all Leeds can offer is opera North. Leeds is far and away its superior economically. For Leeds to have a realistic chance of supplanting Manchester the Council need to be bold and basically spend some money on needed infracstructure and cultural improvements.I'm not a soccer fan but I found hard to believe the way that the business community of Leeds sat back and let Leeds U go to the wall. I'm certain that wouldn't have happened to either of the Manchester teams.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 08 Nov, 2008 5:34 pm

As has been said, Leeds is a big city. Manchester is tiny by comparison, but the "Greater Manchester" (surely an oxymoron) area takes in a big geographical area and lots of other towns.For example Salford Town Hall might as well be in Manchester they are that close.That said, other places certainly do a far better job of getting the begging bowl out for government funds, securing billions we can only dream of. In that respect we are definately second class and it's a mystery to me how it keeps happening and why out MP's don't make more of a demand on their masters in Whitehall.Manchester does have a lot going for it culturally, but there are huge swathes of run down derelict areas where the money most definately hasn't been spent - try driving into Gorton off the M60, it's like the worst parts of Leeds x10. Ask the people living there what benefits they've seen from the tram system or the Lowry?

Trojan · Post by **Trojan** » Sat 08 Nov, 2008 7:15 pm

raveydavey wrote: As has been said, Leeds is a big city. Manchester is tiny by comparison, but the "Greater Manchester" (surely an oxymoron) area takes in a big geographical area and lots of other towns.For example Salford Town Hall might as well be in Manchester they are that close.That said, other places certainly do a far better job of getting the begging bowl out for government funds, securing billions we can only dream of. In that respect we are definately second class and it's a mystery to me how it keeps happening and why out MP's don't make more of a demand on their masters in Whitehall.Manchester does have a lot going for it culturally, but there are huge swathes of run down derelict areas where the money most definately hasn't been spent - try driving into Gorton off the M60, it's like the worst parts of Leeds x10. Ask the people living there what benefits they've seen from the tram system or the Lowry? As you say "Manchester" compared to Leeds is small, much of what we call "Manchester" is either in Salford "Granada" say or Trafford - Man U. Salford is a city in its own right, but I've been going to Manchester for over thirty years, and I still don't really know whether I'm in Salford or Manchester much of the time. Leeds in the past twenty years has made progress in catching Manchester up, the trouble in West Yorkshire of course is that in the past none of the large towns was allowed to get too big for its boots. So Bradford was the wool capital and is now the curry capital, and Huddersfield the cradle of Rugby League and now the largest "town" in the country all rival Leeds for the limelight as cultural centres.

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 08 Nov, 2008 7:45 pm

A the risk of repeating myself,both Ravey davey and Trojan are right.I think we suffer from a combination of circumstances that hinder the city. We are deemed to be well off and not in need of handouts (the perception of Brdafordians and pudsey dwellers that Si pointed out.)Combined with our trumpet blowing,such as "Knightsbridge of the North,"Europes fatest growing city" etc etc etc then this perception has been enhanced to a defree that government and European bodies reckon were alright and can get on.Well,yes we can to a certain degree,because were not a city of moaners.If we get a knock back we try and sort it ourself.unfortuanately we are then ignored by the government/EU becasue (as i have used this analogy before) we are like a well behaved pupil in a classroom of children with attention deficiency syndrome.Whilst the others climb the walls of the classroom and make most of the noise,the studious Leeds gets on with it,and just like any school,is left to do so.The attention deficeincy pupils (moaning cities) are placated with handoutsTime to swallow some pride,whinge like hell,and get some attention.