Pub Names & What They Mean.

[wiggy]

cnosni wrote: wiggy wrote: Trojan wrote: wiggy wrote: the lancastrians would name their hostelries the rose and crown or rose etc,usually showing the red rose,whilst us yorkists used the white rose. All true. However, I'll quibble with you on a major point. The Lancastrians tended to be those from the North of England and the Yorkists from the South. So at Towton there were thousands of Yorkshiremen killed fighting for the Lancastrian cause. Effectively as you say the Wars of the Roses was a civil war, but fought between the Northern magnates against those from the South. yes this is very true,however the good king richard the third was enthroned in york at the time .as the countries capital at the time due to the king moving his court there,he must of thought the area safe,thus! i feel sure there were many yorkists from our area.the people fighting each other at towton were the children of the men that had stood shoulder to shoulder at crecy and agincourt...all wars are sad...but civil wars especially so. Richard III was crowned at Westminster 22/06/1483,22 years after Towton,His popularity in York came about because he was Duke of York and he showered the city and its inhabitants with grace and favour.All this though occured after Towton,it was Richards elder brother Edward,the future Edward IV who was the leader of the Yorkist army at Towton in 1461 ,infact Richard was not even at Towton.Richard was not the villain that Tudor propogandists (including Shakespeare)had painted him to be,but neither was he spotless.He was clearly implicated in the "dissappearance" of his nephews,the sons of his older brother Edward IV,the two remaining obstructions to the throne for Richard.Its not possible that Richard did not know about the removal of the princes in the tower,and if he genuinely did not then he never went to any lengths to find them or bring the perpretators to justice.The boys just vanished.Richard was a product of his time,he was a brave fighter and good commander,his depiction by Shakespeare as a deformed hunchback is in clear contradiction with his known fighting abilities,in fact at Bosworth he was within a hair of fighting Henry Tudor,personally, one on one.It was on Tudors bodyguard that repelled Richard at Bosworth,not Tudor himself,though it has to be said that Richard had only instigated this personal attack on Henry Tudor and his bodyguard when he realised the battle was about to be lost,it was a last ditch attempt to turn the battle his way.Richard was not a "good "king in the true sense of the word,in fact it was the old Yorkist supporters who turned against him in the end,and it is they who supported Henry Tudor when he landed in Milford Haven with a tiny force and no legitimate claim to the throne.Richard had improved the lot of the Northerners with his Council of the North,but overall he had created envy and jealousy amongst the aristocracy with his patronage of the Nevilles,the family of his wife.You can read all the fiction novels you like,but none of them match real life....... ever! didn't have a hunch back either,that was painted onto his portrait by tudor lapdogs,and one would suppose shakespeare was sucking up to bess when he wrote all the bad things about him....now is the winter of our discontent my bum! i,m glad edmund of blackadder gave him a slap......bain of my school days!!!

[simong]

David Raven wrote: I drove past the 'Rag & Louse' in Yeadon yesterday...Does anyone know why/how that got it's name? I believe it was a term from the cloth mills in Yeadon - a louse is a kind of shuttle in a weaving loom, and rag was obviously something to do with the cloth, possibly discards. The pub was only renamed a few years ago and a lot of people in the village still know it as the Oddfellows, which I believe it was called because it was a meeting place for the local Oddfellows Society at one time.

[Lilysmum]

simong wrote: David Raven wrote: I drove past the 'Rag & Louse' in Yeadon yesterday...Does anyone know why/how that got it's name? I believe it was a term from the cloth mills in Yeadon - a louse is a kind of shuttle in a weaving loom, and rag was obviously something to do with the cloth, possibly discards. The pub was only renamed a few years ago and a lot of people in the village still know it as the Oddfellows, which I believe it was called because it was a meeting place for the local Oddfellows Society at one time. The pub in question was called the Odfellows but has always been known locally as the 'Rag and Louse' or just T' Rag This is because in the far flung past it was a lodging house for people passing through or of no fixed abode and who's style of dress and personal hygeine left a lot to be desired.When the pub was last done up it was given it's "local" name

[Si]

I thought the Oddfellows was some kind of society or brotherhood, hence it being a fairly common pub name? There's one in Eccleshill, too. And Pudsey. And Yeadon.

[simonm]

The previous description of the War ofthe Roses is prety good. Yorkists forces were nobles and the Lancastrians were the main forces of the North. Vast majority of the Lancastrians were from the "ordinary" folk and the majority of them from the Yorkshire region. Had the earl of Warwick not entered the ray of Towton late in the day the Yorkists would have lost the battle, as their main force was being pushed down from the top of the ridge / hill. Warwick entered and helped push the lancastrians towards the river! Anyway, the Hark to rover comes from the old cottages named the same as a warning when the Abbey caught fire one night. A dog was barking and a monk awoke shouting "Hark to rover" to wake the others to help extinguish the fire and save the abbey. Well, that the legend I heard about it!

[jam]

does anyone know where the name The Mustard Pot in Chapel Allerton comes from???The building is called Clough House and has been Named that since it was built. I was told it was because the Colemans once lived there but i am not sure if i am having my leg pulled!

[Samson]

There is an Oddfellows Arms near me in Tyne and Wear as well.There is a decent explanation of the origins etc on Wikipedia. But to save time here is a brief resume. It seems it developed from the Medieval tradesmen Guilds, where Masters tried to protect their trades etc. Other less wealthy 'fellows' also formed Guilds. In some towns there were not enough from the same trade to form a guild and so different trades joined together- hence the 'odd'.Guilds were later persecuted and by the end of Elizabeth 1 had lost all power.The Free Masons and Oddfellows survived by adapting their roles to social support in times of hardship or ill health of their members. The many pub names refer to past meeting places of Oddfellows lodges. They became a Friendly Society, but by 1948 their position was undermined by the National Health Service and Welfare State.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oddfellows

[Trojan]

There is certainly an Oddfellow Street in Morley.

[Ex-Loiner]

Lilysmum wrote: simong wrote: David Raven wrote: I drove past the 'Rag & Louse' in Yeadon yesterday...Does anyone know why/how that got it's name? I believe it was a term from the cloth mills in Yeadon - a louse is a kind of shuttle in a weaving loom, and rag was obviously something to do with the cloth, possibly discards. The pub was only renamed a few years ago and a lot of people in the village still know it as the Oddfellows, which I believe it was called because it was a meeting place for the local Oddfellows Society at one time. The pub in question was called the Odfellows but has always been known locally as the 'Rag and Louse' or just T' Rag This is because in the far flung past it was a lodging house for people passing through or of no fixed abode and who's style of dress and personal hygeine left a lot to be desired.When the pub was last done up it was given it's "local" name

[Ex-Loiner]

The "Oddfellows" in Yeadon was always know by the locals as "The Rag", a term originating from the Rag Trade.In the late 1980's & early 1990's is was tenanted by a Rick Atkinson (who was also tenant of the Crown Hotel on Ivegate, Yeadon) & managed by his brother - I on occasions did the "Quiz Night" for them.I remember the pub well before my move to the coast. "The Rag" was a brilliant "locals" pub before a certain pub chain took it on & changed the name - I believe for a while it was called "The Slug & Lettuce" before taking its current name.