An old-looking wall on North Street (near Lovell Park).

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 8:50 pm

Hi NST. Welcome to Secret Leeds. Thanks for your helpful and interesting post, which is much appreciated. Thanks also j.c.d. for the information about the low wall, which does add to the likelihood that the high wall there now is probably not as old as it looks!

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 9:35 pm

NST wrote: Leodian wrote: The low wall on North Street at Lovell Park has some interesting stone blocks at its entry/exit points. This photo (taken October 7 2011) shows one set. The blocks look large enough to possibly have had something on top at one time but I have not been able to find any photos to confirm if that is correct. I have in fact not been able to find any old photos that show that wall at Lovell Park (Grafton Park at one time) so I do not know how old it is. I think Grafton street may have moved to the left a few meters (looking up the hill) after the old houses were demolished. What remains today are entry points to the original 'Smithfield Park' (previously Smithfield Cattle Market). Here is a photograph collage I've quickly put together showing the corner of North Street & Grafton street in both 1906 and 1956. On the earlier photograph, you can just see on the far left the entrance to the park and the gate pillar stone. It is these pillar stones that still exist today, but as you can probably see from the photographs, the original terrace on North Street before you get to the corner of Grafton Street was slightly longer. If you look at the corner of Grafton Street today (where it meets North St.) you will see that this low wall abruptly ends - there is a cut piece of stone. I'm not entirely sure why Grafton Street was moved to the left a bit, but then again I have absolutely no idea why they pulled this entire area down. My great grand parents Ruben and Isabella Yules lived at No.8 Grafton Street, and my late dad had such vivid and fond memories of this street and also Camp road. He adored his grandparents and their wonderful house. Apparently the council deemed this street uninhabitable and so demolished the lot. You be the judge, look what was there and look at what we have now. Crying shame if you ask me!If anyone else had relatives on Grafton Street I would love to hear from you My great great grandparents lived on Grafton Street. Pretty sure that one side had two addresses one for the back and one for the front. Looking at the various pics that you've posted, it looks like the lower part of the wall was where the shop/ buildings once were as the length of the wall was much shorter in the 1906 pic to where it meets the shops. Also, overlaying the 1890 map to google earth seems to line up more or less exactly to the modern layout. I think it unlikely a relatively long street such as Grafton St would be shifted a few meters to the north. Grafton St is also dead straight so the bottom end can't have been relocated either. It's deceptive but I've its the same layout apart from a slightly wider entrance to Grafton Street from North Street.What looks like has happened, is that once the buildings were demolished, the wall to the park was lowered and the removed stones added to fill the gap that was left. Look at the top stones on the modern map they don't match the relative levels and the overall wall height is at least half of what it was.

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 9:44 pm

Cheers LS1 . It adds to all the fascinating information about the area.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 9:44 pm

j.c.d. wrote: jim wrote: Leodian wrote: Old walls fascinate me and there are very many to be seen in Leeds. One such wall is that on North Street near to Lovell Park. The picture (taken April 22 2012) shows a close-up view of some brickwork in that wall. The sandstone bricks show some nice depositional features from when the sand was originally deposited, being mainly horizontal layers but some show dipping layers. I wonder how old the wall is? I suspect that the mortar between the bricks may not be original but even that still looks old. The wall is of relatively modern construction. I remember the site well, as Scheerers musical instrument shop was on this site in 1964 - when I bought my fifth musical instrument from them. There were shop and pub frontages all along that side of North Street ( and a number of side streets heading towards Camp Road) from Lovell Park to the Meanwood Road junction at the Golden Cross. All were straight onto North Street, and did not need flights of steps to access them. As I do not live in Leeds anymore I will have a good look at that wall in North St. when I next visit.you mention Scheerers music shop, it was almost opposite the White Stag pub. in the 50s I worked at Modern Floor Covering (carpets) on the corner by the White Stag. the only long wall I can remember was Lovell park and I think that was a low wall. Leo, that wall might actually be original you know. The shops opposite the White Stag were further north towards the Golden X. On the 1910 OS map it shows that there was a large building in its own grounds on that site where the wall is now. I cant post a link, but if you find the map, on the west side of North Street between St Luke's St and Skinner Lane you will see it.

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 9:58 pm

Have a look at this, from the 1949 surveyed OS map. Both features can be seen here. Grafton Street may appear in a different location because Byron Street has been opened up quite extensively at the North St junction. 99 North Street looks interesting. I wonder if anyone can find what it was. I cant see any photos on Leodis of this part of the street. It is the property just east of "Grafton School" at the bottom of Lovell Road. I think this is what the wall bounded.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 10:24 pm

Does anyone remember the outspoken lady who had a greengrocery shop, corner of North Street and Grafton Street ?? There were small tables outside with some goods on display. If I remember rightly if there was any nonsense or unjustified complaints from a customer they would be told in which direction to go and what method to be used to get there !!

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Thu 09 Oct, 2014 10:31 pm

That's an interesting map LSI. I wonder what the "Ruin" was that is marked just right of centre?

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 10 Oct, 2014 1:35 am

Leodian wrote: That's an interesting map LSI. I wonder what the "Ruin" was that is marked just right of centre? Whatever it is is there in 1890,next to St Lukes church and school. Theres a definite boundary separating it from the church. There is also an indication that its surrounded by trees/grass.Possible vicarage?

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 10 Oct, 2014 1:36 am

Leodian wrote: That's an interesting map LSI. I wonder what the "Ruin" was that is marked just right of centre? Whatever it is is there in 1890,next to St Lukes church and school. Theres a definite boundary separating it from the church. There is also an indication that its surrounded by trees/grass.Possible vicarage?

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Fri 10 Oct, 2014 7:33 am

The "ruin" looks like it was the vicarage of St Lukes Church