Burley Bar Stone - and the rest

Post by **Croggy1** » Mon 03 Mar, 2014 11:55 pm

mark1978 wrote: Phil, the possibility that the stone was mounted inside the bus station entrance is a very good shout. It also fits with the suggestion from the WYAS that it's behind a plywood facade- not the hoarding on the Lady Lane corner, but the white shopfront next to the Hellenic. The plot thickens.On the subject of the Lady Lane corner (seeing as I don't think we've ruled that out) anyone know what's going on in these two pics from 1999?Duff quality, but it looks like the corner is being used as a poster hoarding at that point. So still possible that the bar stone is behind there somewhere. This has probably already been mentioned and ruled out ... but what is the wooden board in the 2012 streetview image?http://goo.gl/maps/Xbz4U

mark1978 · Post by **mark1978** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:05 am

Hang about.1980 Leodis shot, as posted by Jogon on this thread in Sept 2012.What's that at ground level to the left of the bus station entrance?

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:07 am

See from this bit of thread Mark http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messag ... 50&#104336

Post by **cnosni** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:07 am

Phill_dvsn wrote: I'm wondering if this chap has any relevance to the story?John Harrison the wealthy businessman and benefactor of the town.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harri ... ds%29*John Harrison was the owner of a large tract of land lying at the top of Briggate, beyond the modern streets Upper and Lower Headrow. Sometime after 1626 Harrison and six other wealthy townsmen, combined to buy the manorial rights of Leeds from the Crown and bring it under the control of the Leeds Corporation. He was well respected throughout the city and often played a role in local politics.In 1624 he built a new Grammar School to replace the old school at the top of Lady Lane. Thoresby tells us that he; 'removed it from so inconvenient a Situation to a pleasant Field of his own'. The pleasant field was situated between what is now the Grand Theatre and North Street; the school had a school yard, and was surrounded by a wall*.........................................................................So he owned all the land in question, possibly built the chapel, and was part owner of the manorial rights of Leeds. It would make sense that all boundaries were marked out at this time?Thanks for the map also Mark. I have looked at that before. I'll see if I can clean it up and see if the other bar stones are marked on it The chantry chapels and the boundaries predate John Harrison by about 3 to 4 centuries, thats not to say that Harrison did not undertake some building on or around the site, necessitating moving of or replacing the original Bar Stone.This is likely to have occured with all the Bar Stones at some time or another and it would have probably been more expedient to create a replacement bar stone rather than try and extracate the old one and re use it. This would explain the 17th/18th century script that we see on the Bar Stones that we have now.

mark1978 · Post by **mark1978** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:12 am

Phill_dvsn wrote: See from this bit of thread Mark http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messag ... 50&#104336 Sorry, there's so many tangents on this thread I can't keep up!You have to admit it does look a bit, erm, bar stone-y though.

mark1978 · Post by **mark1978** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:14 am

Croggy1 wrote: This has probably already been mentioned and ruled out ... but what is the wooden board in the 2012 streetview image?http://goo.gl/maps/Xbz4U Apparently LS1's had a look and there's nowt there.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:27 am

cnosni wrote: The chantry chapels and the boundaries predate John Harrison by about 3 to 4 centuries, thats not to say that Harrison did not undertake some building on or around the site, necessitating moving of or replacing the original Bar Stone. That's totally correct yes Csnosi. But in the case of the North bar stone we have no evidence of this. The 1725 map clearly shows the Burley bar stone. But nothing at all for the North bar stone. In fact that area was called 'Towns & New Castle'The shaded in area was the area inside the bar boundaries. The shading in stops at Burley Bar. It also stops where the North bar stone was marked on the old map. But on that map and road layout it stopped on the ''other'' side of the road, and not on the bus station side of the road. So clearly in 1725 what would become the site of the bus station was not in the town boundary by that date. 1725 seems to be a very late date to not have the North bar stone marked if it was already hundreds of years old. The bottom of Vicar Lane is curved, and was obviously changed to resemble a layout similar to what we know today. The same will apply to the bus station part of Vicar Lane, and it has to be that point in time when the North Bar stone was placed there.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:52 am

mark1978 wrote: What's missing though is the odd vertical column of half (or sideways-on?) bricks in the brickie photo. Possibilities: That's a great point indeed and it's the only way the bar stone could possibly fit into that corner pillar. Those half bricks would have had to be removed and that is where the joint of the building would be.

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 1:14 am

What a fascinating thread this is, with superb input from so many. Thanks to all of you.As it seems from earlier in the thread that Leeds Civic Trust do know the current location of the North Bar stone then why do they not publish it. OK, someone may try to nick it or damage it but surely it could be kept under observation (a CCTV ?) or perhaps even removed now, as it is an historically significant item, before it gets 'accidently' damaged during the construction work of the Victoria Gate development.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Tue 04 Mar, 2014 1:28 am

[quotenick="Leodian"]As it seems from earlier in the thread that Leeds Civic Trust do know the current location of the North Bar stone then why do they not publish it. It seems they do not know the exact location. This is the latest reply I got from themLeeds Civic TrustNot sure exactly. Central panel we think. Further investigations will be require once a contractor is on site.