Leeds trolleybus scheme delayed further

Jay Cartay · Post by **Jay Cartay** » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 4:26 pm

How would you expand the T Bus? I'll tell you how: by ripping out the guided bus routes and replacing them with T Bus routes. But then where do the regular buses go? There's no reason that a tram couldn't share the guided bus routes, had there been some forward thinking. We need somebody with vision to say "right, wwe're not going to have a system like Manchester etc. to start with, but the foundations will have been made and it will be a start." We certainly don't have anybody like that at LCC right now

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 6:43 pm

Hearing the strong wind that is howling just now I hope that if the Trolleybus scheme does ever get going that its overhead cables are designed to stay up in the wind! Bridgewater Place design is bad enough in wind but the thought of live (?) trolleybus cables fluttering about puts the wind (sorry!) up me.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 10:50 pm

Squatch_11 wrote: See, this is what I can't get my head round. I can accept that people aren't swayed by the trolley bus bit. After all, it's a bus.But as far as I can tell, the main probelm is it isn't on tracks. If it was a tram, that followed the same route, had the same segregations, would the opinion still be quite so vitriloic?If yes, then what is the answer? What proposal would you support? Maybe that's for a different thread, but I'm genuinely interested given that few on here see absolutely any metir in the scheme whatsoever. Follybus is the new unholy result of the council / Metro having no cohesive transport strategy and a decade or more of piecemeal half baked fixes that create more problems that they solve.We have ELITE, or as its more commonly known, the York Road misguided busway. Constructed at great expense (even though more than half of it is just ordinary bus lanes) it has become the sole property of Worst as Arriva quickly but quietly stopped using it. Transdev and other users never used it due to the additional regulations and cost involved meaning that where there is a misguided section there are still bus stops on the ordinary carriageway. And the cherry on top of this scheme is the bus priority lights that bring all traffic on the A64 to a halt every time a bus approaches. Or a coach. Or a minibus. Or an empty patient transport ambulance. Or a taxi. Or a cyclist. All of which are legally perrmitted to use the bus lane sections.This means that traffic now frequently tails back past the Woodpecker flyover - something that almost never happened before this scheme went in...Emboldened by this, the same mistake was repeated on Kirkstall Road.So we have what Metro laughingly refer to modern transport schemes running from east to west. These are examples of what they have spent huge sums of public cash on. Don't forget all the road realignments and priority lights installed for the ftr buses on the 4 which were hugely unpopular and were eventually pulled off the route and relegated to the second tier Bradford run, leaving all the expensive works behind.Which brings us to follybus. A hugely expensive scheme featuring Edwardian technology that Metro initially said would save 3 minutes off a journey running north and south. A scheme that will rip the heart out of a conservation area and green corridor whilst (by Metro's own admission) creating massive congestion for everyone on the route. A scheme that is outdated before it is started. Metro and the council have both been forced to admit that the main aim of the scheme are the road alterations and park and ride facilities. There are numerous other reasons why the scheme shouldn't go ahead, most of them listed in this thread.A cynic might argue that by continually creating congestion there may be other politically motivated reasons behind it. Cllr Wakefield has been trying to introduce road charging for years and what better way to justify it than by creating congestion across the city and claiming we have a modern public transport network as an alternative.I could go on, but its getting late. * * * * * * * * Edit - in fact I will go on, as there is more to be said.Are Metro and the council seriously expecting that people will drive in from the Wharfe valley to the north, or Wakefield, etc at the southern end of the route (and places further afield) and park up in a windswept car park 5 miles out of town and wait for a follybus, paying for the privilege of standing all the way into the city (check the details, well over half the passengers on each follybus will be standing)? Even if the follybus is quicker than the car into the city centre, which is at best debatable, the additional time at the car park and then getting to their workplace when they get off the bus will combine to make the total journey time longer than it took in the car.And then the same journey reversed on an evening - a walk to the bus stop, a wait for the bus, standing all the way to Stourton / Boddington, a walk to the car and then joining a long queue to get out of the car park? Yet Metro and LCC seem to think this will appeal to people!This is set to cost £250 million, with £70 million coming from the council - a council which is currently so skint that it is closing old folks homes, closing community centres, laying workers off and can't afford to maintain the roads - although the follybus project has seen £5 million of public money spent on consultants, PR and spin before any work has even been authorised. And lets not forget that the only way this got forced through at the last council meeting was the imposition of a 3-line whip to all Labour councillors.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 1:00 pm

Watch out for the covert tactic used by L.C.C to get a public yes vote for the trolleybus scheme in the Y.E.P herehttp://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/lat ... 445512*And the results of the survey will be handed to the people who run the city to help them address some of the issues that matter most to YEP readers* .....................................................................................It seems the council can't accept that the people of Leeds don’t want the trolleybus, and they think that all the opposition is just from people living along the A660 corridor.This broader survey is very crafty - because it's general nature means that it will be completed by a lot of people quickly who aren’t really interested in the trolleybus, or have any great knowledge or understanding of it. The danger is that these people could tick they are in favour of the trolleybus without understanding the wider implications and failings of it. If the survey gets a massive no vote for the T.Bus, you can bet your bottom dollar the citizens of Leeds will hear nothing more about it. But if the Trolleybus gets a good proportion of a yes vote, you can be absolutely sure it will be trumpeted as a great success and what the City of Leeds wants. Very crafty tactics of a very desperate Council at play here.*You can take the survey and vote no for the trolleybus here*http://www.jpsurveys.co.uk/leeds2014/

jim · Post by **jim** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 1:52 pm

Thanks for the survey link Phill. I have completed it, and voted for a light rail/tram system.

Post by **cnosni** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 7:04 pm

Done it myself

tilly · Post by **tilly** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 8:42 pm

So have i dont know if it will do anygood we shall see.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 9:18 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: Watch out for the covert tactic used by L.C.C to get a public yes vote for the trolleybus scheme in the Y.E.P herehttp://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/lat ... 445512*And the results of the survey will be handed to the people who run the city to help them address some of the issues that matter most to YEP readers* .....................................................................................It seems the council can't accept that the people of Leeds don’t want the trolleybus, and they think that all the opposition is just from people living along the A660 corridor.This broader survey is very crafty - because it's general nature means that it will be completed by a lot of people quickly who aren’t really interested in the trolleybus, or have any great knowledge or understanding of it. The danger is that these people could tick they are in favour of the trolleybus without understanding the wider implications and failings of it. If the survey gets a massive no vote for the T.Bus, you can bet your bottom dollar the citizens of Leeds will hear nothing more about it. But if the Trolleybus gets a good proportion of a yes vote, you can be absolutely sure it will be trumpeted as a great success and what the City of Leeds wants. Very crafty tactics of a very desperate Council at play here.*You can take the survey and vote no for the trolleybus here*http://www.jpsurveys.co.uk/leeds2014/ The survey is currently running at around a very healthy 3 to 1 against the idea.

Tasa · Post by **Tasa** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 10:11 pm

Done.I agree, Phill, that the question has been "buried" within a set of unrelated questions so that people not affected/not interested may vote Yes without thinking. Hopefully not.raveydavey, good to know that the voting is so far 3:1 against. I hope it maintains this trend.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 20 Feb, 2014 10:22 pm

Tasa wrote: Done.I agree, Phill, that the question has been "buried" within a set of unrelated questions so that people not affected/not interested may vote Yes without thinking. Hopefully not.Raveydavey, good to know that the voting is so far 3:1 against. I hope it maintains this trend. There is absolutely no doubt about the Councils crafty tricks and real agenda now.*Leeds students urged to grade city in YEP survey*http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... isgraceful behaviour targeting students in the hope they out voice the opposition group at Hyde Park. They will stoop to any low levels to force this trolleybus in