Leeds trolleybus scheme delayed further

Post by **mhoulden** » Fri 31 Jan, 2014 1:50 am

I was bored enough to read through the entire Statement of Case. Interestingly, Leeds City Council and Metro are prepared to take the financial risk of the project, but they aren't prepared to pay for diesel/electric hybrid buses. Reading between the lines, I think they've also given up on quality bus contracts as the statement only mentions deregulated buses. They intend to cut the frequency of bus #1 from every 10 minutes to every 20. However, if the buses do remain deregulated, the chances are that First won't get to operate the trolleybus for competition reasons, and I can't see them reacting too kindly to Metro asking them to reduce their services. The first phase of Manchester Metrolink was built and run by a consortium including GM Buses, in the days before they were split between Stagecoach and what eventually became First, and I remember reading that they introduced a new bus service to Bury specifically to compete with the trams.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 11:02 am

The biggest bus firm in Leeds has unveiled ambitious plans that it says would deliver greater benefits than the city’s controversial trolleybus scheme at a fraction of the cost.Private operator First’s proposed ‘New Bus for Leeds’ project is outlined in the firm’s submission to the forthcoming public inquiry that will decide the fate of the public sector-backed trolleybus plan.The company says its project would operate on a city-wide basis and as a result would benefit more people than the £250m trolleybus system, which would initially run along a single north-to-south corridor. First also says the bus masterplan could be delivered faster than “outdated” NGT, which would not go live until 2020.“We are concerned that the trolleybus scheme will not achieve this. On the other hand the ‘New Bus for Leeds’, combined with other measures, will bring radical improvements to far more passengers, in a much shorter time and with huge savings to the public purse compared with the trolleybus proposals.”Read more here.http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 430110Well that certainly is an unexpected turn of events, and one I bet has caused some anger and awkwardness down at the Clown Hall. Such a public vote of no confidence in the Follybus can only be a source of celebration for the good people objecting to it. And a great source of shame for the buffoons trying to force it through. I do however feel we are now slipping backwards even further in the Cities quest for a modern day transport scheme. A bus is a bus, and we have plenty of those already. If we carry on down this road we will be having horse drawn omnibuses proposed next. This First Bus story can only do serious damage to the Follybus, and in that respect I find it to be most welcome. I do hope it's the final nail in the coffin for this shameful scheme. And the Council at last will admit to defeat with this very costly dead duck. For First bus to label the Trolley bus as *Outdated* is great news indeed

Squatch_11 · Post by **Squatch_11** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 2:36 pm

While I know you're no fan of the trolley bus scheme, you do remember that the FTRs that are so loved on this forum were the result of First scuppering the supertram. You should be careful who you jump into bed with...... From what I can gather from the article, it would involve sending the £200m+ tbus money back to Whitehall (or not claiming it, whichever), then First would make a grab for some millions of pounds from the West Yorkshire Transport fund (so at the expense of other schemes), and then there'd be nothing to stop them sending the new green Boris-buses wherever they liked.I'd be surprised if anyone saw any positives in their scheme, whether you believe in the trolley bus scheme or not....

simong · Post by **simong** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 3:35 pm

Squatch_11 wrote: While I know you're no fan of the trolley bus scheme, you do remember that the FTRs that are so loved on this forum were the result of First scuppering the supertram. You should be careful who you jump into bed with...... From what I can gather from the article, it would involve sending the £200m+ tbus money back to Whitehall (or not claiming it, whichever), then First would make a grab for some millions of pounds from the West Yorkshire Transport fund (so at the expense of other schemes), and then there'd be nothing to stop them sending the new green Boris-buses wherever they liked.I'd be surprised if anyone saw any positives in their scheme, whether you believe in the trolley bus scheme or not.... I have been of the impression that First have been driving the trolleybus scheme even if it was in the background as it seems like they (or whoever ran it) would be getting access to an exclusive bus corridor whether they ran it on wires or with diesel engines - and the FTR would be a candidate for a trolleybus replacement service that would run under the wires. First's dislike of railed systems is well known as they can't reroute services flexibly.In addition, First's public relations business is very competent, particularly as it has to do a lot of reputation management around the country, and as you say, announcing new rolling stock as public opinion on the trolleybus is at a low is a good way of getting back into Metro's good books, getting hold of some WYT money and probably cherrypicking more routes come the next review. Then again, as First drivers wouldn't open the middle doors of buses when they took over operations, I can't exactly seeing them supporting the Boris Bus with its open back.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 4:51 pm

Squatch_11 wrote: While I know you're no fan of the trolley bus scheme, you do remember that the FTRs that are so loved on this forum were the result of First scuppering the supertram. You should be careful who you jump into bed with...... I think you misread totally what I have said here. The only good news is it is very bad news for the Follybus.The rest of my thoughts are it is a bus plain and simple, the next step away from a horse drawn omnibus. It was nothing new and modern at all. I thought that it was pretty obvious I was no fan of the First bus idea at all either. The citizens of this city expect far better than either of those kind of tin pot cheap schemes. The future growth and fortunes of the city depends on it.

Loiner1960 · Post by **Loiner1960** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 9:31 pm

Well let's see a green option.Horse drawn omnibuses require a hackney licence to operate and welfare needs of the horses.But a route around the city centre in Summer. Might even be a tourist attraction. And there would be few objections.And the roses would grow more!Plus there wouldn't be unsightly wires or new roads built.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 10:48 pm

If you want a laugh, try listen again to Radio Leeds at about 4.15 this afternoon, when Cllr Lewis is being interviewed by Andy Edwards and is frantically trying to pretend that Firsts announcement isn't bad news for the folleybus brigade...

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 10:57 pm

"the result of First scuppering the supertram."No.! It was Alistair Darling that withdrew all the funding.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 11:22 pm

raveydavey wrote: If you want a laugh, try listen again to Radio Leeds at about 4.15 this afternoon, when Cllr Lewis is being interviewed by Andy Edwards and is frantically trying to pretend that Firsts announcement isn't bad news for the folleybus brigade... It can be heard here at 01.23.00http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01q1mhkWhat a load of contradictory cobblers that was. He says First Bus promised us 10 years ago we didn't need a supertram and their new f.t.r buses would solve all our problems. And what have we got? Their f.t.r buses only run on one single route to Bradford he says!And what actually is their proposed N.G.T trolley bus?Yes a one route wonder bus exactly like f.t.r! In response to the First bus option not needing all the expensive infrastructure like the overhead wires T.b bus needs. He goes on to say that only 10% of the cost is actually going on the trolley bus infrastructure AND trolley buses themselves. The real cost of it all (90%) is going on the park and rides.WHAT! I can't believe the audacity of it. He actually means two pieces of parking tarmac will be the most expensive part of the trolley bus scheme? How many millions are they going to cost then??? Not only was the First bus statement today damaging, but his own argument against it was even more damaging to the scheme. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 3:30 am

A quote from LEEDS CIVIC TRUST.Who remembers "Elite", "twin-track", FTR and of course now we have Hyper-link. FTR was put forward as a direct replacement for Supertram in 2005! First has had some good ideas in the past but none have ever been delivered successfully. To replace our trolley with a "Borismaster"? Cynics amongst us will ask why if this is such a great idea why haven`t they done it before now! A private monopoly company killing off a public funded scheme, not quite right is it.