SecretLeeds - History, culture and architecture in Leeds

Hi Mick,

I worked with Dave at Upper Wortley Police Station in 1965, where he was in C.I.D. (I was a young PC) and we were both detective sergeants together at Dewsbury Road Police Station in 1973 - 1975. I think that he went on to work at Millgarth C.I.D. and then into the Fraud Squad.

As you are probably aware, I don't like calling people solely by their collar numbers but I worked with 459 in the City Crime Squad in the late 1960's. He was a very good friend to me in those days and I occasionally went running with him in Middleton Park (I was playing rugby in those days and hated running - I'd sooner be playing). He was a brilliant detective and one of the most hard working and conscientious officers that I ever met. He should have achieved a much higher rank than Detective Chief Inspector and sooner too. I have not seen him since I retired. I think that he was responsible for completing all of the paperwork and files for the John Speed murder - he was a very, very capable and dedicated officer and, although quiet, a really nice man.

I also remember 969. He was on my team when I was a detective sergeant at Dewsbury Road Police Station, along with your late brother Richard (829), Bill Barkas (963) and others.

Ian

jma wrote:

uncle mick wrote:Slightly off topic but I wonder if you ex Leeds policeman can help ? When I was at Cockburn in the early 1960's my friends father was called Raymond Ward who I believe was an Inspector and lived at Farsley. He was I think in charge at Elland Road for football games, so we got free tickets.\
I have always wondered what became of Raymond Ward ??

I remember Raymond Ward very well. He was the chief inspectotor at Dewsbury Road for part of the time when I was a PC there - late 1960s. I also knew him on a personal level when I played hockey for Leeds City Police. Raymond Ward was an excellent player and AIUI had played for Yorkshire when he was younger.

I don't know anything about his life in retirement\
\
Thanks for your reply

A bit more about Ch Insp Raymond Ward.

Once upon a time, senior officers sent PCs on all sorts of errands. When I was probably still a probationer but already a panda car driver, the medal ribbons on one of his tunics were coming a bit unstitched and he sent me to have them sewn properly on. In those days, the Leeds City Police clothing stores were on Grace Street, opposite the back entrances to Brotherton House, the HQ. Places like that were mainly staffed by grumpy old people who didn't realise their role was to support the operational police. Anyway, when I got there, I received an earful of abuse for expecting them to do a job like that. ie Somebody without the wit to realise that somebody my age wasn't going to have a chestful of WWII medals. Also, although the pips weren't visible because of the way the jacket was folded to show what needed sewing, senior officers' uniforms were tailored in a different style, and cut from superior (barathea?) cloth. When I said I'd have to report back there was an abrupt change of attitude of the "Wait there and we'll do it now" variety.

Also, Ch Insp Ward isn't listed in the History of Leeds Police, published on amalgamation in April 1974, so he must have retired before then. I remember him playing hockey in the summer of 1972 so he must have retired between those dates and probably joined just after the war.

All a rather long-winded way of saying he was of broadly the same generation as Walter Young.

jma, His full name was Raymond P Ward who married in 1945. Looking at suitable births he is not local, any idea of where he came from ??

uncle mick wrote:jma, His full name was Raymond P Ward who married in 1945. Looking at suitable births he is not local, any idea of where he came from ??

Nothing at all. He was only at Dewsbury Road a fairly short time and I know nothing about his career or life before that. Most of my memories involve standing to attention and giving it "Yes Sir! No, Sir!" My point being that he was very much my senior in age and rank so no chit chat. I've a feeling that he may have been the last uniform chief inspector at Dewsbury Road at the time when the post of deputy sub-divisional officer was redesignated superintendent (grade II.) There were lots of promotions and there was then a while when the only uniform chief inspector posts were in squads and departments. After some brain-racking, I remembered that Raymond Ward went to the Information Room ie the force control room at Brotherton House. I'm pretty sure that that was his last posting before amalgamation on 1 April 1974 when there was a lot of horse trading. The chief constable of the amalgamated West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police was Ronald Gregory and the communications department went to one of his choices called Barton. Raymond Ward must have retired at that time. He would have had the option of retiring after 25 years service in those days and I'm guessing he went sometime between 25 and 30. At that point he had missed out on promotion to supt and staying in charge of communications so probably time to look elsewhere.

I vaguely remember talk, perhaps among the hockey players, that he had gone to join the family business. In those days there used to be a former textile mill, Highfield Mill, almost at the top of our street and in those days it was occupied by a company called Institution Supplies, making catering equipment for schools etc. Their trade name was ReWard brand. I once saw Raymond Ward driving near there and putting two and two together, possibly making five, assumed that might be his family firm. The mill has been demolished something like twenty years now and the company is dormant. I found this useless bit of information on line:

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im19 ... Instit.jpg

Off topic I know but I did catch this obituary of former chief inspector Roger Holmes and wonder if he was known to our former constabulary members.

https://announcements.johnstonpress.co. ... =191688436

TABBYCAT wrote:Off topic I know but I did catch this obituary of former chief inspector Roger Holmes and wonder if he was known to our former constabulary members.

https://announcements.johnstonpress.co. ... =191688436

Only the vaguest of memories. Collar number 896 (?) and I think he might have been a PC in the front office at Ireland Wood when I was in CID there (1972-1974)
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PS: This morning I spoke with ex Leeds officer 371. He was on early turn on the morning of 15 February, 1970 ie the first shift changeover after the murder of Inspector Taylor. He was sent immediately to reinforce the cordon I mentioned and remembers it as being chaotic because of the poor communications. At that time he had just returned from initial training. He knew nothing of the incident involving Mr Young and although he knows who he was, he doesn't know anything about him to add to the thread.

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PPS It's occurred to me to see if there's anything about Walter Young being shot at in the "The Leeds Police." With 138 years crammed into fewer pages, there little detail on anything. It has this:-

In February, 1970, large numbers of Leeds officers were involved with Bradford police in assisting the West Yorkshire Constabulary in the hunt for the murderer of Inspector Taylor and Mr. Ian Michael Riley at Farsley.

This was an occasion which demanded instant co-operation by the three forces, and Leeds was able to supply C.I.D. and uniform officers, together with the recenty-acquired mobile control vehicle, which played an important part in force and field communications on what was its first operational commitment.

I bumped into the former DS 454 this morning. He knew both Walter Young and Raymond Ward well, having worked with them in CID and Plain Clothes. (In Leeds City Police "Plain Clothes" was what might be better understood as the Vice Squad.) He mentioned that after his retirement, Walter Young spent some time as a senior officer in what was then the Royal Hong Kong Police.

I see there is a Royal Hong Kong Police Association. They may have some info or a pic.

https://www.rhkpa.org/gallery/

He saw Raymond Ward at a National Association of Retired Police Officers social function quite recently. Although we were next to the site of the former mill I mentioned above, he didn't know about any connection with it, but he did say that Raymond Ward always took his car to what is now Bedford Garage on Asquith Avenue, which might have been where he was going when I last saw him all those years ago. Or not.

He also knew a bit about the murder of Barry Taylor, having been on early turn the following morning. I think he has cleared up a couple of points for me. The first is that in the Times article posted above, Ronald Faux referred to Chief Superintendent Gregory as being in charge. Ex DS 454 told me that when he arrived at the briefing point that morning, he and is companions were briefed and given firearms by what he took from the rank badges to be a superintendent. Although he had been trained in firearms handling in the armed forces, he knew that others with him had not and he suggested to this "superintendent" that this was unsafe. He later heard that it was Ronald Gregory, Chief Constable of West Yorkshire who he had taken to task, presumably in a superintendent's coat because he had gone out without his own.

I think it's widely accepted that it was the problems highlighted in providing an armed response to this murder which led Ronald Gregory to modernise the system in West Yorkshire, both through much better training and eventually the introduction of response vehicles whose crews had rapid access to firearms. Superintendent Colin Greenwood was the head of this.

Good to hear that Raymond Ward is still with us, looking at his marriage date of 1945 he must be 90 plus

I met another former colleague this morning, collar number 459 but he retired as a detective chief inspector (DCI) long ago. He knew Walter Young who picked him as a detective constable (DC) for the crime squad. He described him as a good boss but he didn't know of any particular headline-grabbing cases.

Like me, he knew Raymond Ward through hockey and believes him to be still alive.