Democracy - Is that what you call it ?

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Fri 30 May, 2014 11:08 pm

Interesting story in today's Y.E.P. about Councillor John Illingworth who has been "censured" by his own party for 3 months and effectively suspended for that period.His crime ? was to merely express his concerns over a very controversial decision by the ruling Labour party in Leeds to grant a planning application for housing on part of the old Leeds Girl High School's old playing field.I freely admit I'm no big fan of the local Labour council,mainly on account of their dreadful past/current record in local politics.Their whip vote on the Trolleybus issue also rankled with me.There are more details in the article to digest,but going back to the original point.........strikes me it's a damning indictment of the poor quality of politics overall if you're not allowed to express an individual opinion on matters of great importance to the very electors who voted you in.Hardly any surprise that many people feel disenfranchised with political events.On a national level,people see it as one long gravy train,where the electorate come second.This behaviour eventually filters down to local level where people play the game to suit their own personal ambitions.The way certain parties/councillors conduct their business show what a charade it's all become.Perhaps if these elected officials went back to square roots and started putting the best interests of their own voters first for a change,some good may come out of it.I'm not holding my breath.From the various comments,it seems Cllr.Illingwoth is held in pretty high regard by many and that once again,Big Brother has spoken.In taking this decision,this ruling Labour elite,have effectively also removed him from the chair of the health scrutiny board overlooking the controversial Leeds Children's Heart Surgery decisions that have/are being taken.Make your own minds up but I know how I feel about the upper handedness so often demonstrated emanating from the Civic Hall.I've said for some time now that one day,democracy itself will lead to the death of democracy in this country.Think about that-maybe it's not as far fetched as it may seem !Rant over...........anybody got any nice pics ????

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Sat 31 May, 2014 9:17 am

As a resident in the area served by Councillor Illingworth I can only speak of him in the very highest regard. He is a hard working professional man with real concern for the area, and strongly expresses his views in a rational and always considered manner and is amenable and approachable at all times - and in the interests of the environment can be seen cycling competently to work and elsewhere regularly. He is the very last person in public life to deserve being censured or suspended !!

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Sat 31 May, 2014 10:43 am

BLAKEY wrote: As a resident in the area served by Councillor Illingworth I can only speak of him in the very highest regard. He is a hard working professional man with real concern for the area, and strongly expresses his views in a rational and always considered manner and is amenable and approachable at all times - and in the interests of the environment can be seen cycling competently to work and elsewhere regularly. He is the very last person in public life to deserve being censured or suspended !! Thanks Blakey,I agree........the subject matter may have not been ideal fodder for friday evening however,there is a serious undertone to this type of approach taken towards a highly respected individual,irrespective of anybody's political views.

sujay · Post by **sujay** » Sat 31 May, 2014 12:47 pm

somme1916 wrote: Interesting story in today's Y.E.P. about Councillor John Illingworth who has been "censured" by his own party for 3 months and effectively suspended for that period.His crime ? was to merely express his concerns over a very controversial decision by the ruling Labour party in Leeds to grant a planning application for housing on part of the old Leeds Girl High School's old playing field.I freely admit I'm no big fan of the local Labour council,mainly on account of their dreadful past/current record in local politics.Their whip vote on the Trolleybus issue also rankled with me.There are more details in the article to digest,but going back to the original point.........strikes me it's a damning indictment of the poor quality of politics overall if you're not allowed to express an individual opinion on matters of great importance to the very electors who voted you in.Hardly any surprise that many people feel disenfranchised with political events.On a national level,people see it as one long gravy train,where the electorate come second.This behaviour eventually filters down to local level where people play the game to suit their own personal ambitions.The way certain parties/councillors conduct their business show what a charade it's all become.Perhaps if these elected officials went back to square roots and started putting the best interests of their own voters first for a change,some good may come out of it.I'm not holding my breath.From the various comments,it seems Cllr.Illingwoth is held in pretty high regard by many and that once again,Big Brother has spoken.In taking this decision,this ruling Labour elite,have effectively also removed him from the chair of the health scrutiny board overlooking the controversial Leeds Children's Heart Surgery decisions that have/are being taken.Make your own minds up but I know how I feel about the upper handedness so often demonstrated emanating from the Civic Hall.I've said for some time now that one day,democracy itself will lead to the death of democracy in this country.Think about that-maybe it's not as far fetched as it may seem !Rant over...........anybody got any nice pics ???? Here's a nice pic, nothing to do with your rant! By the photographer Marc Riboud in 1954, in the George, Great George Street. I wonder what this chap's thinking? I hope I'm not breaching copyright laws here, I'm sure someone will tell me if I am! I downloaded the pic, it allowed me to 'save as', does that make it ok? I've also got a postcard of it which I bought in the Museum shop.

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » Sat 31 May, 2014 1:33 pm

Copyright or not im copying your picture and using it cos i like it.

electricaldave · Post by **electricaldave** » Sat 31 May, 2014 2:37 pm

The problem when getting elected is that you need resources, from organisational through to finance and also some sort of hook to hang your cause on.Once you take up a particular whip, you are then bound by decisions that are made at conferences. You can out your case at conference but if the party membership does not agree with you, then you are expected to go with the party majority view.If everyone in a party takes their own view, it becomes disjointed, and loses unity, it very quickly becomes ineffective.If you want to make politics work for you, then you need to become part of it, and then you'll find all the compromises that you must make - no-one gets their own way without persuading others, its how it is.

sujay · Post by **sujay** » Sat 31 May, 2014 3:37 pm

Mark S wrote: Copyright or not im copying your picture and using it cos i like it. Glad you like it. Here's another one by the same photographer, I found it on this great website: theoralhistorycompany.com It has lots of voice recordings of peoples' memoriesSorry everyone that this is not the right thread, I was just responding to Mark S's remark

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » Sat 31 May, 2014 4:50 pm

Thanks checking it out now, looks interesting...

BarFly · Post by **BarFly** » Sat 31 May, 2014 5:07 pm

For lots of reasons I'll not go into lest this turn into a rant this country isn't actually a democracy nor does it even claim to be apart from at specific times for specific reasons. Can anybody tell me of an occasion on which they were able to vote directly on the question of which party should run the country, for example?I ought to point out here I'm not trying to suggest we live in a totalitarian hellhole or anything but more commenting on the lack of true democratic process.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 31 May, 2014 6:13 pm

I read that story in the YEP and was quite disconcerted with it. It's difficult to see what he's done wrong to be honest, unless upsetting the apple cart has become a hanging offence now?The trouble is that for most of Leeds, the 33% of people who bother to vote will only ever vote for the party that they've always voted for. They could field a dancing dog and provided it was wearing the right rosette it would get elected.That is why nearly every ward returns councilors of the same allegiance at every electionThere is no "democracy" as the majority of the electorate don't engage with the process. There was a brief period in 1997 when it looked like that might change, like what we chose actually mattered, but Blair and his cohorts soon crushed that concept. And that situation suits the three main parties (or should that be the two main parties now?)The first obligation of the elected should be to the electorate, but this notion has been lost somewhere along the way and replaced with a slavish obedience to the party line above everything else. Time after time after time the wishes of the population are ignored, while the elite plough on with their own pet plans.Perhaps the Civic Hall is the most dangerous building in Leeds..?