Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

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tilly
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby tilly » Mon 05 Jan, 2015 9:36 pm

I had a Velocet in the sixties the same model has the police used the thing about them was you could not hear them coming they were so quiet.All the other British bikes you could hear a mile off i would think this was a big plus when you were on duty.Ps I find this subject on police work very interesting keep up the good work.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
TABBYCAT
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby TABBYCAT » Mon 05 Jan, 2015 11:39 pm

tilly wrote:I had a Velocet in the sixties the same model has the police used the thing about them was you could not hear them coming they were so quiet.All the other British bikes you could hear a mile off i would think this was a big plus when you were on duty.Ps I find this subject on police work very interesting keep up the good work.
Don't know about quiet Tilly , every LE I come across when I was a rally club member sounded just as clattery as any of the British iron I used to ride.

Must have been badly set up. :lol:
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tilly
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby tilly » Tue 06 Jan, 2015 2:57 pm

Hi TABBYCAT The Velocete i had was water cooled i cant for the life of me remember the model but it sure was a lot quieter than any other model British bike.I could be wrong its a long time ago maybe someone on site will know Blakey is in the know when it comes to bikes i should think others of my age will let us know .Ps Thanks for your reply a happy new year to you and your family. :)
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.
TABBYCAT
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby TABBYCAT » Tue 06 Jan, 2015 4:55 pm

Same to you too Tilly and continued good health. :D

bgams
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby bgams » Tue 06 Jan, 2015 9:04 pm

Ian,
I joined in August 1966 and went to Pannal Ash where my instructor was a Leeds City man called George Drake, super fella, a sergeant at the time who came back to Leeds in my time as an Inspector and as I recall staffed some incident rooms although I may be wrong. My first station in November 1966 was Ireland Wood and my first Inspector a guy I am sure you knew well, John Conboy. At that time the shifts were quite large and comprised of men nearly finishing their service, 25-30years in and all done at least ‘National Service’ and guys of my age (19) and slightly older most of who were trying to get into CID. Like the theme of this thread and your previous contributions ‘collar numbers’ were important features of colleagues. In fact I surprise myself these days how many I can/can’t remember and to which I can put a face. In the above mentioned categories the National Servicemen comprised of PC 3 Bennett (the oldest of the Bennetts), 123 who was the van driver by the name of Jordan (surname) and a really old boy called Johnny the Frog (I’m not making it up). At the other end of the scale were guys like 90 Brodie, (his uncle was the Chairman of the Licensed Victuallers Association and had the Brick Public House at Wortley and more famously The Mexborough Chapeltown) , 102 ‘Charlie’ Barlow, (remember in the incident codes an x102 was a ‘domestic disturbance; never forgot that one) 252 Terry Durham whom I’m sure you knew well, 875 Sean Beardsmore and ‘Champagne Charlie’ Harry Martin and a guy called Haw who was from Humberside with a number like 851 I think. The sergeants were 414 Frank Smith, a gentleman, 673 ‘Lugsy’ Graham and another very nice guy, Peter Baxendale whom, I think, may have been in his first post as Sergeant and became well known certainly in Leeds in his own right. I also think that we got one of the ‘800 club’ sergeants in Sam Butterworth from Bury. As you know Ireland Wood was a large division in those days stretching down to Woodhouse Lane, Blackman Lane and Meanwood Road thus boundering on not only Chapeltown but also Millgarth Division taking in the University before its later expansion nearer to the present station at Weetwood.
I suppose the interesting thing in all this is that we (I) was dropped off a somewhere in the area either Hyde Park Corner , Meanwood Road Woodhouse Lane junction or Woodhouse Library from where we would walk the beat, make points because as you say, no radios in those days and take meals at Belle Vue Road Traffic Department premises. Some walk. In fact it was possible and did happen, not infrequently, when the only colleague you saw on night shift was either the sergeant giving you a mark in your pocket book or the local ‘noddy’ man which unbeknown to me I was soon to become. Relatively speaking looking back Blackman Lane, the Wellcloses and the surrounding terrace streets were not the most welcoming areas to be about on nights but they certainly gave me a good grounding in police work.
In late 1967 I think the Ireland Wood/ Millgarth boundary was reconciled and I was transferred to Millgarth as a back-up ‘noddy’ man. I also worked in the Plain Clothes office with characters like Jack Underwood, a young Gordon Garfitt, also Tony Hosfall, a chap called Taylor and a very nice guy, Dave who later became a D/S. I was in the CID office when the DCI was a nice man called Len Shakeshaft (‘my names Shakeshaft the only one in the book’) and the DI was Don Gledhill another decent man once you got to know him. Young Peter Mallott (no ties in this city), Kenny (‘Fish’) Mills, Brian Smith, a chap called McClean (not Kenny), Sam Bartram, Barry Evans, David the hockey player and ladies man and last but certainly not least Michael Pearson were all in the office. The notables amongst the D/Ss were Peter (stay blonde/ Peter Pan) Smith a gentleman, a chap called Lambe, his first name always escapes me but behind his back people called him Kwqui! And I suppose the daddy of them all, depending on your point of view, Peter Smalley. I think Derek Cox may have been a D/S at Millgarth at that time who was easy to get on with and made his way up the ladder. In relation to the Crown at Crown Point I recall that we used to have monthly shift do’s in it and a regular visitor to which would have been Len Barker, a personal friend of the Landlord, Pat Killgallon. I didn’t see any nefarious reasons for his visits but I know some did although, in my experience he, Barker, was one of the few approachable senior officers at that time and he always bought each of the party present half a beer.
I served in Wortley CID where Dick Ellis was like a father to me, Mick Grubb was very supportive and Ian (Tatty) Grant was a great guy to work with. Mick Mills was a D/S during my time there as was John Cowman initially and only for a short time. Young Musgrove was there in my time as was ‘Flutters’ Fleetwood, and a girl from York called Anne White whom, I think, was replaced by Val Barker. Of course ‘Hoss’ Hanson was the DCI and I do believe that you are right about the Barry Taylor shooting although I wasn’t present. I think Roy Pickup was in the office in my time as was Trevor Buckroyd and the dapper guy who went into the fraud squad, can’t think of his name. The Beulah and Farnley Working Men’s Club were two of our haunts where we were made particularly welcome and of course other similar places in the Armley area. A guy called Graham Dry was a D/C in the office. Did you ever come across him?
In relation to going to NI, and I thank you for your kind remarks, I passed my sergeants exam in 1968 and despite some time out in the wilderness including Pontefract CID was still not promoted in 1979 although I had got back to Leeds and I was in the Burglary Squad at Brotherton House via Ireland Wood CID. Something had to be done so in 79 I applied for the RUC secondment and went there in July travelling with a Bradford guy called Dave Lumley and planning to return in six months when promotion would be a foregone conclusion. I never served back at home and joined the RUC in February 1981, I served all my time there in CID, including, division, squads and training and they accepted my exam so I achieved promotion.
Finally forgive me if I rambled I should know better for I have done a ‘Reviewers’ course and I have tried to be relevant.
Look forward to future correspondence.
iansmithofotley
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby iansmithofotley » Thu 08 Jan, 2015 12:30 am

Hi Brian,

You have provided a lot of information in that post, I could write a book about jobs that I have done, and places that I have worked at, with many of the names that you have mentioned.

I worked with George Drake in 1968. He was the Det. Insp. in charge of the Leeds City Crime Squad. As a young detective I was impressed with his great knowledge of the city centre and also the Chapeltown area. He used to love to go out walking around the city and visiting places and people. As you are well aware, we spent a lot of time in the pubs and clubs in those days, as that was where the villains were, in addition, that’s where the ‘information’ came from via observation, informants, or otherwise. Wherever we went, George seemed to know everybody. He knew all the licensees and many of their customers. In those days, the only person that I knew, who had more knowledge (city wide), was Dennis Hoban who also seemed to know everybody. In each division, most of the detectives knew all of their local licensees, dealers and villains but Dennis seemed to know everybody, everywhere and their business. Dennis died aged 54 in 1978 when a routine hospital operation went wrong. I went to his funeral at St Anne’s Cathedral in Leeds and apart from the Police, there were many villains there, showing their respect for a great man and a great Detective Chief Superintendent and head of Leeds C.I.D. The only other time that I saw this was at John Stockwell’s (778) funeral in about the same year at Rawdon Crematorium. Although they were ‘on the other side’ it’s amazing how some of the hardened criminals appeared to still have some respect for certain detectives. I am sure it was down to how they were treated by them. I have mentioned this before but in those days it really was a case of ‘your last prisoner is, potentially, your next informant’ and that was how we worked.

If you remember, we used to get ‘detective expenses’ in order to pay informants and for other purposes. We all had our own informants and kept them sweet by cash or favours. If a big job was learned about then the cash had to be more substantial and had to be claimed as a special case. As long as it was justifiable, then that was okay. Rightly or wrongly, the system worked and we kept the identities of our informants secret. It all changed because of the fraudulent and dishonest antics of some officers in the Metropolitan Police (as usual), and the system was changed by the Home Office so that all informants had to be registered with the force, which mostly destroyed the system. I don’t want to know but you must have had a similar system in Northern Ireland.

The only time that I remember working at the same Police Station as John Conboy was, I think, in 1973, when he was a D.I or D.C.I. at Chapeltown, and I was a shift sergeant. Obviously, I worked under him many times, when he was a Det. Ch. Supt., on murder enquiries. It is possible that I was at Ireland Wood C.I.D. in 1967 when John was an inspector, as you have said. His son joined the job, but I did not know him. John is still with us although I have not seen him for over twenty years.

So far as relates to the Bennett family, I knew them. The dad, Jim, was PC 3 and was our clerk at Ireland Wood C.I.D. I vaguely knew Terry (866 – Brian Wakeford’s old number. Brian died as a passenger in a car crash on Meanwood Road in the early 1970’s, after a police function). Terry left the job and I think that he had a pub on the A 64 in the Malton area, but I do not know where he is now. Bob (931 – I think) was the other brother although I never worked with him. I believe that he died quite young in 2003. I know Rodney (38). I last saw Rod a few years ago. After he retired he took up landscape gardening and he re-designed the garden for my next door neighbour – his labourer was Alan Child @ Banger (915). I see Alan occasionally and he now sings in a small band around the Leeds pubs and clubs and at social events.

I remember Alex Brodie (90) from his Ireland Wood days but did not know him well. Jeff Barlow (102) left the job and I have not seen him since. I have no idea of his whereabouts. I always got on well with him though.

Terry Durham (252) is still around. He lives at Horsforth and is involved with Horsforth Golf Club. He retired as a Det. Insp. I worked with him for four years on the Leeds Crime Squad before he later moved into the No. 3 District Regional Crime Squad, next door to our office in Brotherton House. We were also at Chapeltown together, in the early 1980’s, I was in the Vice squad and he was in C.I.D.

I never worked with Stuart (Harry) Martin (177) but remember him at Ireland Wood. He was a sergeant for a while, in the 1970’s, but he left the job early, never to be seen again. I don’t recall an officer called Haw but there was one called Mick Hoy (807) who was at Ireland Wood and, I think, ended up as an inspector. He still lives at Horsforth. 851 was Rodney Hardisty who served in the Traffic Department. I knew Rodney from my schooldays, he was a bit older than me and I used to go cycling with him. When I was 16, I went to Butlins at Filey with Rodney and also Colin Wilson (553) who I also knew from cycling. We all ended up joining the Police. Colin retired as a Det. Insp. and lives in the Morley area.

Frank Smith (414) was a sergeant at Upper Wortley P.S. around 1966. He was a very quiet but friendly man but I never worked with him on the same team. I remember Shaun Beardsmore (867 not 875) as a detective but never worked with him as I think that he served mainly in the Gipton area and I was never stationed at Gipton (or Millgarth). I seem to remember Ernie Graham as a uniform sergeant, and then as an inspector at the Bridewell at the Town Hall. His son, John, joined the job but I can’t recall his collar number. I found Ernie to be a fairly quiet man but John was the opposite – a more jolly type of bloke who was always friendly and was full of fun. I knew of Sam Butterworth (ginger haired man – number not known) but never worked with him.

I knew Peter Baxendale (764) very well. He worked with Mick Grubb (75) in the Plain Clothes Department (later called Vice squads) at Ireland Wood when I was in C.I.D. there. We also worked on the Leeds Crime Squad together and then as detective sergeants in the Burglary Squad in 1975/76. As you are aware, Peter was very interested in antiques and became an authority on them. He set up the force (W.Y.P.) Antiques Squad (with a Det. Con. whose name I can’t remember – possibly Peter Shearman) and was involved in the investigation of burglaries and robberies where expensive antiques were stolen. Peter went to live at Burton Leonard near Harrogate and died in 1990.

So far as relates to Jack Underwood, I never worked with him. I think he retired as an inspector. I think everyone knew Gordon Garfitt @ Chopper (239). He worked all over the place and finished up as a Det. Ch. Insp. I saw him last year in my local pub in Otley. We were both sergeants on the Burglary Squad around 1975/76. I first knew Tony Horsfall (591) as a detective at Millgarth and I seem to remember him as a sergeant in the Training department at Brotherton House. He was my superintendent at Holbeck in 1989 when I was a shift inspector.

I never worked with Len Shakeshaft other than on murder enquiries. He died in 2009. I think that he retired as a Det. Supt. You are right about the “my name’s Shakeshaft – the only one in the book” (Leeds telephone directory) legend, but I never heard him say it. Don Gledhill died in 2013 aged 88. He was originally in the West Riding Police and I think that he was a sergeant at Castleford in the 1950’s. I think that he resigned and became a ‘bookie’ and then went bust (I have never heard of any other bookmaker going bust, ever), he was probably too honest. He joined Leeds City Police and I first came across him when he was promoted inspector in about 1966 and came on to my shift at Upper Wortley P.S. I worked with him again when he became a Det. Insp. or Det. Ch. Insp. on the Burglary Squad along with Paul Briggs and possibly Jim Teehan. Don ended up as a Det. Supt. He was a really nice, quiet, bloke but always seemed to carry ‘all the worries in the world’ on his back.

Peter Mallott (700) is still around. I first knew him as a Police Cadet and he retired as a Det. Sgt. He spent a long time in the Regional Crime Squad and then became an expert on surveillance methods and was an instructor on surveillance courses, regionally and nationally. He received the Queens Police Medal for his efforts. Since his retirement, he has worked all over the world as a trainer and advisor on security and surveillance methods.

I never worked with Ken Mills (424) or Brian Smith (798), as they were mainly Millgarth of Gipton based. I seem to remember Brian retired as an inspector (or maybe a chief inspector). Sam Bartram (186) was a Det. Con. at Millgarth P.S. in the early 1960’s and then went into the Fraud squad. Afterwards he just left the job and I have never seen him since. The only McLean that I knew was Kenneth McClean (727) who died in 2003. We worked together as sergeants at Weetwood C.I.D. in 1986/88.

Barry Evans (423) started at Upper Wortley P.S. around 1965 and was there at the same time as myself. He left the job after a few years and went to work, I think, at McCarthy’s House Removals on Meanwood Road. I have never seen or heard of him since. I joined, and did my initial training at Pannal Ash with Mick Pearson (528). He was mainly Gipton based until he joined the Drugs squad around 1971 and I worked alongside him, as that squad shared the same office as the Leeds Crime Squad and, on bigger jobs, we all acted as one unit. The newly formed, and dedicated, Stolen Vehicle Squad also joined us in 1970 and two of the Crime Squad staff, Jim Morgan and John Stockwell, moved over to work with two traffic officers/vehicle examiners, Gordon (Jock) Marshall (616) and Frank Smith. This meant that we were short of space and moved from the ground floor of Brotherton House to a big office on the third floor, immediately next door to Dennis Hoban and his deputy, Det. Supt. Jim Fryer (who later became Chief Constable of Derbyshire). Mick served a long time on a unit called the Major Crime Unit under Det. Supt. John Stainthorpe who more or less selected his own men who had been in the crime squads, or both, such as Jim Thompson (309), Alan (Jock) Tainsh (622) and Terry Durham (252). Mick died of cancer, after 23 years service, in 1989.

You have mentioned a Det. Sgt. Smith. I think that you may be mistaken with the first name. There were two – Bob Smith (36) who I think was nicknamed ‘Peter Pan’ with fairish hair. He retired in 1984 and died in 2010. The other was Peter Smith (368). Both were well known and well liked throughout the city. I never worked with Bob but I believe that Peter was on the Burglary Squad with me. I first knew Colin Lamb as a Det. Sgt. At Millgarth and then as an inspector. I never worked with him. He died in 2013. He had a very dark complexion and black hair and some people might say that he looked slightly Asian, hence your nickname.

Peter Smalley ended up as a superintendent but he died from cancer in 1997. He spent alot of his time at Millgarth C.I.D. but I never worked with him, other than on murder enquiries. I remember the mysterious deaths of the nurse Helen Smith and a male friend in 1979. They allegedly fell off a hotel balcony in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia on to some railings. Her father, Ron Smith, who lived at Guiseley, had served for a time in the West Riding Force and was adamant that she had been murdered. From memory, Peter Smalley and Eddie Hemsley (223) went out to Saudi but were not allowed to do anything by the police there, so they had to come home empty handed. Helen’s body was in Mill Street Mortuary for thirty years as her father refused to allow it to be cremated or buried. Over the years, I saw it disintegrate from a body to almost nothing (there were about six post mortems). It was in 2009 that Ron Smith allowed the cremation and he died in 2011. The full facts about the deaths were never resolved.

I think that Derek Cox finished as a Det. Ch. Insp. (or Supt.). He worked in the Detective Training School for a while but he served mainly in Leeds C.I.D. branches. Len Barker was a gentleman. He was my Det. Ch. Insp. when I first went in C.I.D. at Ireland Wood P.S. He retired as a Supt. and died in 2009. Like myself, Len loved rugby union and lived at Chandos Terrace right next to (the then) Roundhay R.U.F.C. at Chandos Park (which is now a housing estate). He was also a keen fisherman. I think that Len knew every licensee in the city and made a point of making sure that he did, even when pubs changed hands. He particularly liked the Irish licensees such as Tommy Hand, Keiron Richardson and Pat Kilgallon and whenever I worked with him (usually as his chauffeur) he always had a reason to visit one of them, even if it was only for free beer at the Old Royal Oak, Wykebeck, Old Bank Club, Golden Fleece or the Crown.

Trevor Buckroyd and I were both inspectors together at Holbeck P.S. He married Jane Edge (policewoman inspector) and they live in the Ilkley area. I thought that the ‘dapper guy’ who went into the Fraud squad was possibly Barry Jewitt (he died in 2012) but he may have joined after your R.U.C. move. I can’t think of anyone else who went there from Millgarth C.I.D. other than possibly Clive Kingswood (65) or Dave Ogle (454). Others who served in there, over those years, were Ted Watson (172), Mick Booth (354) and Peter Molloy (682), who were all much older. Dave Ogle and I worked at Dewsbury Road C.I.D. in 1973/74 and eventually, probably after Millgarth, he moved into the Fraud Squad. He was a working detective and had never been in there before. He once told me that on one of his first fraud jobs, as soon as he had enough evidence to arrest the suspect, he went out and locked him up. Apparently this was against the Fraud Squad protocol, at the time, as they normally took months or years on a job before they took the plunge and arrested anyone (unless they had no choice). Their files and paperwork were always exemplary and they nearly always got a commendation from the judge on every job that they did ‘for their meticulous enquiries and outstanding paperwork’. Everybody who served in that department had a plethora of commendations. I have lost touch with Dave.

I worked with Anne White (WPC 15) at Upper Wortley P.S. (and, I think, in the Drugs Squad/Leeds Crime Squad). I knew of Graham Drye (number not known) who was also there, but I don’t think he served for very long.

I hope that, to some extent, this has brought you up to date with some of your former colleagues in the Leeds City Police Force. It is almost fifty years ago since we joined and, obviously, many are dead. Others served until their retirement and some left of their own accord for whatever reason. As you are fully aware, we all got into trouble or difficulties, at times, either through the job (it was an occupational hazard) or domestically and most of us managed to overcome our problems and to eventually retire. Many of those who left the job, left as they did not have any choice because of possible disciplinary or criminal investigations, which may possibly have taken their course, and the easiest and cheapest way out was to leave. Unfortunately, some people got into trouble, criminally, and had to face the consequences at court.

I’m just so glad that I joined fifty years ago when I could work using my own discretion and make my own decisions and not have to work to targets and priorities based on manpower, effectiveness and efficiency (Home Office Circular 114/83), and the aftermath, which has destroyed the best job in the world. I feel so sorry for the people who are joining today but I suppose that they will not know any different (even when I joined some of the old stagers used to say that the job was going down hill – but they did not use those words). Also, the job is a lot more dangerous these days.

I have said this previously, but I am only one ex-police officer recalling some of my memories. Any other officer, who served, in whatever branch department or police station, can tell similar stories about their careers, probably a lot more interesting than mine, and particularly the likes of those high ranking detectives who were senior investigating officers on major cases, as they all had to progress through the ranks and work in different roles in order to gain their experience and expertise. I think that one or two of them, such as Bob Taylor and Bob Bridgestock (W.Y.P.), put pen to paper and wrote books about their experiences.

Ian
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby tyke bhoy » Thu 08 Jan, 2015 11:16 am

iansmithofotley wrote: I could write a book about jobs that I have done, and places that I have worked at, with many of the names that you have mentioned.
You almost did ;) I'll have a good read of it later.
living a stones throw from the Leeds MDC border at Lofthousehttp://tykebhoy.wordpress.com/
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tilly
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby tilly » Thu 08 Jan, 2015 1:02 pm

Hi Ian i envy your memory recall keep up the good work.
No matter were i end my days im an Hunslet lad with Hunslet ways.

bgams
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby bgams » Thu 08 Jan, 2015 1:39 pm

I,

So much knowledge, so much detail. All music to my ears. Thank you.

I have a question for you in relation to a barbers shop somewhere in the Blackman Lane area where, in the late 80's lots of police particularly CID and senior officers used to frequent. As I recall it was said that if you wanted to know if you were being transferred before it happened you went to see this barber. Do you recall it at all, its exact location, its name and or the name of the owner.

wbg
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iansmithofotley
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Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Postby iansmithofotley » Thu 08 Jan, 2015 6:03 pm

Hi Brian,

It was called 'Jacks'. Jack was a jewish chap who, as you say, knew everything that was going on, just from talking to his many police customers, whilst cutting their hair. I have forgotten his surname.

Quite wrongly, some officers got their hair cut whilst they were on duty. When reprimanded the reply was always "Well it grows in the firm's time so why shouldn't I get it cut in the firm's time?"

As to the road, it was situated on Servia Hill near to where it changes to St Marks Road. Years ago it lead on to Camp Road and what is now called Oatland Lane which leads on to Lovell Park Road and Wade Lane. As a child, I was brought up in Eltham Terrace, off Woodhouse Street, and knew the area well, as many of my school friends from Quarry Mount School lived in the Blenheim area and I often used to pass what became Jack's Barbers Shop, when I visited them via Shay Street.

There are some photographs of the area on Leodis and a barber's shop next to Devon Mount, at 99 New Camp Road, but I am fairly certain that it is a different shop, but I may be wrong. I seem to remember that 'Jack's' was on its own and not next to a side street.

I use to go to Jack's (obviously off duty!!) but I don't know when he left the shop or what happened to him.

Ian





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