Leeds Pals

[cnosni]

Just got back from a trip in FRance an Belgium to visit a few places that have connections to my family history and WW1Though i dont have anyone in the pals my friends great grandfather was with the 15th West Yorks (Leeds Plas) on 1st July 1916.We visited the area where the Leeds Pals came out of the trenches (my relative was in the 2nd Dukes about 500 yards further south) and though all the other Pals Battalions have memorials on the battlefield itself the Leeds Pals merely have a plaque tucked away on a wall on an outbuilding of a farm on the Serre Road,a good few hudred feet away.The Accrington and Sheffield Pals have a memorial park (in the Mark,Luke and John Copses) and appropriate memorials.I was taken aback that our cities lads arent exactly well represented.To the dgree that when we were talking to the farmer he didnt even know about the Leeds Pals,just the other.Is this a case of our wonderful leaders once again making a little slate plaque (which incidentally shows the other Pals Battalions) tucked away on a decaying farm building,obscured by a bush make do?There is a memorial at Bus Est Artois,where the Leeds Pals spent the preceeding week and a half.This however is well away from the actual site of the battle,and is also a small memorial tucked behind a much larger French one.I think our cities finest have been short changed by their own.

[BLAKEY]

cnosni wrote: We visited the area where the Leeds Pals came out of the trenches (my relative was in the 2nd Dukes about 500 yards further south) and though all the other Pals Battalions have memorials on the battlefield itself the Leeds Pals merely have a plaque tucked away on a wall on an outbuilding of a farm on the Serre Road,a good few hudred feet away. WEll, what a coincidence - my Dad was a sergeant in The Leeds Pals and was badly wounded, ending up in a very long convalescence at Stokesay Court (a commandeered country seat in Shropshire) before returning to work in Leeds.Last July I took a friend to find the graves on The Somme of two of his uncles who had not returned - and by the strangest possible chance (I'm sure it was "meant to be") we pulled up for a break on a grass verge and my friend discovered the plaque on that shabby old farm building near the Battle of Serre. I have the strongest feeling that my Dad may have been in that very spot, andpossibly sheltered there before finding medical help. He spoke very little of The War, but did once tell me that he had hidden and crawled along badly injured before receiving preliminary treatment.Hopefully I am going to return there if I can as our chance visit was on a Saturday afternoon and the farm appeared deserted.I always carry Dad's medals in the Leeds Remembrance Parade and it always strikes me as extremely poignant that he was born in Carlton Hill, less than half a mile from the Cenotaph, and travelled all that distance to have his life changed and spoilt like the majority of the Battallion.

[tilly]

Im pleased you both managed to get there i go to france quite a bit but never had the chance to visit the places you have been.The second World War was bad but the first World War was something else thousands going over the top with a handfull comeing back and what for a few hundred feet of no mans land we owe them so much.

[cnosni]

BLAKEY wrote: cnosni wrote: We visited the area where the Leeds Pals came out of the trenches (my relative was in the 2nd Dukes about 500 yards further south) and though all the other Pals Battalions have memorials on the battlefield itself the Leeds Pals merely have a plaque tucked away on a wall on an outbuilding of a farm on the Serre Road,a good few hudred feet away. WEll, what a coincidence - my Dad was a sergeant in The Leeds Pals and was badly wounded, ending up in a very long convalescence at Stokesay Court (a commandeered country seat in Shropshire) before returning to work in Leeds.Last July I took a friend to find the graves on The Somme of two of his uncles who had not returned - and by the strangest possible chance (I'm sure it was "meant to be") we pulled up for a break on a grass verge and my friend discovered the plaque on that shabby old farm building near the Battle of Serre. I have the strongest feeling that my Dad may have been in that very spot, andpossibly sheltered there before finding medical help. He spoke very little of The War, but did once tell me that he had hidden and crawled along badly injured before receiving preliminary treatment.Hopefully I am going to return there if I can as our chance visit was on a Saturday afternoon and the farm appeared deserted.I always carry Dad's medals in the Leeds Remembrance Parade and it always strikes me as extremely poignant that he was born in Carlton Hill, less than half a mile from the Cenotaph, and travelled all that distance to have his life changed and spoilt like the majority of the Battallion. Hi BlakeyWell the farm would not have been there during the battle.I superimposed some trench maps onto google earth so i could get my head around it all.Three lines of german trenches cut through the farm at that time,thta was the case until 1917 when the germans moved back to the more stronger Hindenburg line.Serre number 3 cemetery,just a couple of a hundreed yards up the track you stopped at is the point where the Leeds Pals came out.THose buried i that cemetery were not done so until after the germans had left the area.Serre number 3 cemetery is immediately in front of the old Britsis front line (as are the ones outside the copses.)This mean the lads in those trenches were left in no mans land for perhaps a year.The shocking thing is that Serre Road Cemetery number 3 is filled with similar casualties.Those kiled on the first day of the Somme,in that area,and were not left in no mans land are buried at the cemeteries behind the front lines,at Euston Road Cemetery and Colincamps.Lots of Pals in Euston Road.So the other pals battalions have memorials in and around the old British front line,but the only mention in that area is a poor little paque,set on a rickety out building of a farm that didnt even exist at the time,added to which would have been in German hands anyway.

[Cardiarms]

I read an account of the end of the war when we finally pushed the Germans back to the start line and the skeletal remains of the Manchesters were found. They fought a defensive skirkmishing retreat that held up the German advance in 1914. They were left in the ditches and woodland which they defended behind what became German lines. No trenches then. The soldier at the time didn't make much of it, apart to notice that none had any boots, as military cemetaries and individual burial were a new thing, until then it had been mass graves or any hole will do.

[BLAKEY]

[quotenick="cnosniHi BlakeyWell the farm would not have been there during the battle.I superimposed some trench maps onto google earth so i could get my head around it all.Three lines of german trenches cut through the farm at that time,thta was the case until 1917 when the germans moved back to the more stronger Hindenburg line.Serre number 3 cemetery,just a couple of a hundreed yards up the track you stopped at is the point where the Leeds Pals came out.Those kiled on the first day of the Somme,in that area,and were not left in no mans land are buried at the cemeteries behind the front lines,at Euston Road Cemetery and Colincamps. /quote]...........................................................................................................Thanks cnosni for all this new, to me anyway, information which is most interesting.    I still have a strong and comforting feeling that I've been roughly where Dad was, and I shall if possible go back soon. Last July I took my pal, at his request, to Colincamps and to Vis - en - Artois to see the graves of his two uncles. It was a very moving weekend and, to those of us connected by family with the battles, the "atmosphere" is still there after all this time.

[cnosni]

Well i know its been a while but (hopefully) this is the memorial to the Leeds near to where they came over the top.

[cnosni]

No,the upload on here is rubbish.Ive uploaded tons of stuff before but this time it wont have even the tiniest,lowest quality version.Ill set up a link to Flickr

[BLAKEY]

cnosni wrote: No,the upload on here is rubbish.Ive uploaded tons of stuff before but this time it wont have even the tiniest,lowest quality version.Ill set up a link to Flickr Wonderful pictures crosni, thank you, and they bring back such memories of our trip last July on my friend's behalf mainly.Last Saturday I was invited to an all day seminar at The Armouries. We had an excelllent lecturer who knows all there is to know about the Leeds Pals and who was most interesting and interested in return. I took a lot of my Dad's archives and these were shown around the group of about twenty folks and well received by the lecturer and the class.One very unexpected surprise - a few years ago I went to Shropshire to see the country mansion where my Dad had convalesced in 1917/8 - his sepia postcards of it had intrigued me for many years. The family owned place was in real financial diffculty, as are many, but relief was not far away. A film company looking for a suitable mansion for the recent film "Atonement" came upon it and used it for some of the scenes. The house is Stokesay Court near Craven Arms and has become very well known as a result.I recorded "Atonement" when it was shown on TV, shelved it for future viewing, tried it eagerly the other day - wrong type of disc for my current equipment to play back, so off to the Library to hopefully rent it.

[buffaloskinner]

We have a friend whose grandfather was in the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry and who according to records died 1st July 1916 at Serre. He is buried at Euston Road and she is going there this year to visit the cemetery.I was able to find the following information about the cemetery for her, which may be of interest to others on here.Colincamps and "Euston", a road junction a little east of the village, were within the Allied lines before the Somme offensive of July 1916. The cemetery was started as a front line burial ground during and after the unsuccessful attack on Serre on 1 July, but after the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg Line in March 1917 it was scarcely used. It was briefly in German hands towards the end of March 1918, when it marked the limit of the German advance, but the line was held and pushed forward by the New Zealand Division allowing the cemetery to be used again for burials in April and May 1918. The cemetery is particularly associated with three dates and engagements; the attack on Serre on 1 July 1916; the capture of Beaumont- Hamel on 13 November 1916; and the German attack on the 3rd New Zealand (Rifle) Brigade trenches before Colincamps on 5 April 1918. The whole of Plot I, except five graves in the last row, represents the original cemetery of 501 graves. After the Armistice, more than 750 graves were brought in from small cemeteries in the neighbouring communes and the battlefields. The cemetery now contains 1,293 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. 170 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to 32 casualties known or believed to be buried among them, and to two soldiers whose graves in nearby small cemeteries were destroyed in later battles. The cemetery was designed by Sir Reginald Blomfield.No. of Identified Casualties: 1123The King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry) 12th (Service) Battalion (Miners)(Pioneers)Formed in Leeds on 5 September 1914 by the West Yorkshire Coalowners Association. Moved to Farnley Park (Otley).May 1915 : moved to Burton Leonard (Ripon) and attached as Pioneer Battalion to 31st Division. Moved to Fovant in October 1915.December 1915 : moved to Egypt. Went on to France in March 1916.Between 1 July and 30 November 1917, attached to Fifth Army Troops for work on light railways.There is more about the 12th Battalion KOYLI herehttp://www.pals.org.uk/koyli/index.htm