Middleton & Belle Isle - where's the boundary?

BigVern · Post by **BigVern** » Wed 24 Mar, 2010 8:25 pm

Hello all. I've just had a happy hour time-travelling to LS10 on Google Streetmaps.It reminded me that backintheday (70s), no-one seemed too sure where one ended and the other began. I lived on both Manor Farm Drive and Way, which seemed to be regarded as Belle Isle and Middleton respectively to all residents (and the postie, IIRC). The Newhall estate I always thought of as Belle Isle, for exampleWiki is down for me, but I seem to remember that someone edited the location of the Manor Farm estate on one of the pages.Any contemporary theories?

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Wed 24 Mar, 2010 10:27 pm

I've no idea at all, factually, BigVern but just in my own mind I always considered everything the Dewsbury Road side of Belle Isle Circus, Sharp Lane and Town Street to be Middleton.

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 24 Mar, 2010 10:51 pm

I suppose its a bit like Sodom and Gomorrah,whre does one start and the other end?

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 12:41 am

BigVern wrote: Hello all. I've just had a happy hour time-travelling to LS10 on Google Streetmaps.It reminded me that backintheday (70s), no-one seemed too sure where one ended and the other began. I lived on both Manor Farm Drive and Way, which seemed to be regarded as Belle Isle and Middleton respectively to all residents (and the postie, IIRC). The Newhall estate I always thought of as Belle Isle, for exampleWiki is down for me, but I seem to remember that someone edited the location of the Manor Farm estate on one of the pages.Any contemporary theories? It was the case that the boundaries were the Hunslet township, the middleton township the beeston township and the Rothwell township in that Belle Isle was only a hamlet of colliers cottages.Belle isle has been used as the name for a council estate, something different to a "township" as the Middleton estates started to merge with the Belle Isle estates then there may have been no official boundary.......

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 1:10 am

Tithe maps and later maps show that if you go up belle isle road you pass from Hunslet township into middleton township.The old belle isle road veered west away from where the estate is and dropped down to the belle isle hamlet near the Middleton Colliery.The road wasn't in belle isle it was the road to belle isle.So maybe strictly speaking (although there's all sorts of boundary changes and differing types of boundary - parish, urban district, parlimentary, township, postal district) The Belle Isle hamlet was in Middleton, and the Belle Isle Estate was built in Hunslet and Middleton.In that the Manor Farm estate, the Newhall estate AND the belle isle estate are all in Miggy.......

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 8:53 am

Another interesting angle to this question is the question of how the name "Belle Isle" originated. In its literal translation from, I assume, French it can be taken to mean "Fine or beautiful Island or Area. So presumably in years gone by it was an idyllic rural spot but when Middleton Colliery was founded the whole nature of the area altered as modern industry took hold. As a small child living in Ilkley but visiting Leeds very very often I can remember always being totally fascinated by the mysterious name "Belle Isle" on the tram destination displays.

tomq · Post by **tomq** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 2:02 pm

Lived on Sharp Lane for many years & this was Belle Isle according to the council. The same council then built a new bus garage 100 yards away on our childhood sports field, and called it Middleton Garage. The boundary must therefore lie somewhere in that 100 yards!

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 2:57 pm

tomq wrote: Lived on Sharp Lane for many years & this was Belle Isle according to the council. The same council then built a new bus garage 100 yards away on our childhood sports field, and called it Middleton Garage. The boundary must therefore lie somewhere in that 100 yards! Well Middleton Grange was even further down into Belle isle so there we go.I'm one who hates councils when they decide to rename areas and shift boundaries to suit themselves. Often their decisions cut across traditions and what people want.I'm not sure that any official/artificial creation of a boundary has ever taken place in that area and that what we all probably know as the "area" of the Belle Isle estate is Belle isle to all of us now, but the historical official boundary situation is it straddles Hunslet and Middleton.No reason why "the people" should not unilaterally decide!!

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 3:01 pm

BLAKEY wrote: Another interesting angle to this question is the question of how the name "Belle Isle" originated. In its literal translation from, I assume, French it can be taken to mean "Fine or beautiful Island or Area. So presumably in years gone by it was an idyllic rural spot but when Middleton Colliery was founded the whole nature of the area altered as modern industry took hold. As a small child living in Ilkley but visiting Leeds very very often I can remember always being totally fascinated by the mysterious name "Belle Isle" on the tram destination displays. Another one Blakey is "Mount Pleasant" many of these are far from pleasant. Belle Isle hamlet was created by the Brandlings in the 1700's when colliery production had been around hundreds of years - it would not have been very "Belle" even then.It's like some of the tightly crammed streets of poor, badly insanitary back to back streets being called "Prosperity Street".I think we are in Irony Street here mate!

carith · Post by **carith** » Thu 25 Mar, 2010 5:01 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Isle,_Leedsthis link may be of interest.