Ginnels of Leeds

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 12:43 pm

Si wrote: There's no sign of the ginnel on the 1836-51 tithe map, Phill. Just fields. Thanks Si. It appears it was only a footpath on the 1851 map above. The estates were built in 1860 and 1861. The ginnel no doubt built between the boundary walls at the same time.I was wondering if the path dated as far back as 1625 with only Weetwood Hall in the area, or even further back perhaps with those Industrious Kirkstall monks again.Cheers

geoffb · Post by **geoffb** » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 1:23 pm

There was a ginnel we used to get from Scott Hall Road to Meanwood Road swimming baths. It ran along the boundary wall of the tannery over Meanwood beck by a foot bridge then up a narrow ginnel which exited on Meanwood Road between Meanwood Road School and a car show room opposite the Salvation Army Mission Hall. I think the beck is now culverted in this area, I'm sure PhilD will know the details. The ginnel from looking at a 1910 map followed the Boro boundary.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 1:32 pm

geoffb wrote: There was a ginnel we used to get from Scott Hall Road to Meanwood Road swimming baths. It ran along the boundary wall of the tannery over Meanwood beck by a foot bridge then up a narrow ginnel which exited on Meanwood Road between Meanwood Road School and a car show room opposite the Salvation Army Mission Hall. I think the beck is now culverted in this area, I'm sure PhilD will know the details. The ginnel from looking at a 1910 map followed the Boro boundary. Hi Geoff.Yes I know the one you mean. I spotted it on old maps when I was doing the course of the Meanwood beck project. You can still see the boundary walls of the ginnel On Google Earth today herehttp://tinyurl.com/44x3xllYou can't get into the area for industrial units though.

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 8:34 pm

lovely evocative pictures Phil as usual.they make me want to go and wander down the plce when I get a spare weekend.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 8:36 pm

Steve Jones wrote: lovely evocative pictures Phil as usual.they make me want to go and wander down the plce when I get a spare weekend. It's recommended Steve, Just over the road is the Hollies which is rather a nice spot if you've not been before

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 10:55 pm

The present day map, showing all the footpaths/ginnels around the Weetwood lane area.https://picasaweb.google.com/ikbrunel/8 ... 6719698242

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Wed 10 Aug, 2011 8:09 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: Si wrote: There's no sign of the ginnel on the 1836-51 tithe map, Phill. Just fields. Thanks Si. It appears it was only a footpath on the 1851 map above. The estates were built in 1860 and 1861. The ginnel no doubt built between the boundary walls at the same time.I was wondering if the path dated as far back as 1625 with only Weetwood Hall in the area, or even further back perhaps with those Industrious Kirkstall monks again.Cheers Well later it is defined as being a route from meanwood to the big houses in Weetwood so a very handy route for any servants who didn't live in and tradesman and suppliers taking their wares to the various grand residencies, with a route for people at the houses to go to meanwood for shops?????Before 1851 as you say and before the Tithe maps something did head in that direction - was it a pathway for carting the stone to make the Weetwood Houses???If well before that it went anywhere was it the route from meanwood to Horsforth??

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Wed 10 Aug, 2011 8:19 pm

The Parksider wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: Si wrote: There's no sign of the ginnel on the 1836-51 tithe map, Phill. Just fields. Thanks Si. It appears it was only a footpath on the 1851 map above. The estates were built in 1860 and 1861. The ginnel no doubt built between the boundary walls at the same time.I was wondering if the path dated as far back as 1625 with only Weetwood Hall in the area, or even further back perhaps with those Industrious Kirkstall monks again.Cheers Well later it is defined as being a route from meanwood to the big houses in Weetwood so a very handy route for any servants who didn't live in and tradesman and suppliers taking their wares to the various grand residencies, with a route for people at the houses to go to meanwood for shops?????Before 1851 as you say and before the Tithe maps something did head in that direction - was it a pathway for carting the stone to make the Weetwood Houses???If well before that it went anywhere was it the route from meanwood to Horsforth?? Hi Parksider, yes the fact it is clearly shown as a footpath on the 1851 map interests me. It was obviously a route of some importance at one time. It was used to define the boundary walls of the estates too. There was very little built around there in 1851 really.

Tasa · Post by **Tasa** » Wed 10 Aug, 2011 8:48 pm

Looking at an 1890s map, this footpath also extended in a westerly direction towards the Hawksworth Wood brickworks and quarry (based on field boundaries shown in the 1850s map) with a side path to Moor Grange which was a former grange of Kirkstall Abbey) so it was clearly an important pedestrian route across north Leeds at the time (unfortunately now buried under Lawnswood School and the West Park estate). Edited to add: picking up on Phill's comment about the Kirkstall monks, this extract from Eveleigh Bradford's book on Headingley links Meanwood, Weetwood and Moor Grange, all places on the footpath:"By 1182 the Abbey was established, and over the following centuries it flourished [...] Within its immediate neighbourhood too, the Abbey slowly acquired increasing property. As well as his initial grant of the Abbey site, William Poitevin gave more land in Headingley where farms (granges) were established to help support the Abbey (Bar Grange, New Grange and Moor Grange) [...] Then early in the fourteenth century, the manor passed form the Poitevins to John of Calverley, connected to the Poitevins by marriage. In 1324 John granted the entire manor to the Abbey, with all its dues and revenues. [...] So the Abbey took control of Headingley and held the manor for the next 200 years, renting much of the land out to tenant farmers. The early records show that by this time a mill had been established there called Headingley Mill, in the field called "Bentlay", next to Meanwood Beck but on the Allerton side. There are references too to a Hall, gardens, granges, named fields, and woods: "Le Meenewude", "Riggeclyf", and the Wetwude", names still familiar today. It is clear that much of the land was enclosed and cultivated or used for grazing, but there was common land too, in particular the Moor, the "mora de Heddinglay", where local people would have been able to graze their animals, cut peat, dig stone, and collect firewood. The name "Monk Bridge" is a reminder of the monks' tenure here: a track across the Moor led to this bridge, built across Meanwood Beck around 1300 to provide access to Abbey lands in Allerton."I wonder if this footpath is the legacy of the track across the Moor?

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Thu 11 Aug, 2011 9:43 am

Tasa wrote: There are references too to a Hall, gardens, granges, named fields, and woods: "Le Meenewude", "Riggeclyf", and the Wetwude", names still familiar today. It is clear that much of the land was enclosed and cultivated or used for grazing, but there was common land too, in particular the Moor, the "mora de Heddinglay", where local people would have been able to graze their animals, cut peat, dig stone, and collect firewood. The name "Monk Bridge" is a reminder of the monks' tenure here: a track across the Moor led to this bridge, built across Meanwood Beck around 1300 to provide access to Abbey lands in Allerton."I wonder if this footpath is the legacy of the track across the Moor? Great stuffEach period of history gives a different purpose for people to be taking a path from one place to another, and as we have established many of these paths have become rights of way such that they end up as boundaries and are not built on due to legalities.IIRC we spoke of one that diagonaly cut through housing north of the merrion centre, and another that cuts through Holbeck and even the mighty railway viaduct has to accomodate.I'm strong on the meanwood one carting stone as when I was a kid a meaningless bridge straddled the beck from roundhay Grance to the wyke at Asket hill, so narrow and old we used to balance across it. Only through secret leeds did I find out it was likely constructed as part of a short pathway to cart stone from the local quarry to make the Hall.Given the fine stone walling of this ginnel there's a great clue it did just that, but of course each decade gives such pathways new use and purpose or renders them redundant.The old coal tramway at Osmondthorpe also is a kind if ginnel cutting through the houses for seemingly no purpose at all today..