My walk around Victorian Holbeck.

[The Parksider]

jim wrote: Hi Cardiarms. I accept your point, of course, but have realised I clarify my position better if one compares the flow to be seen in Tilly's photos of 25/03/10 at 19.19 and 19.22 on p5 of the Cockersdale Mills and Watercourses thread with what is apparent in Phill's great shot of 30/12/10 at 18.27 higher up this page.The difference is that the flow shown in Tilly's views is around half of the total supply that should eventually arrive at Water Lane, while Phill's shows all of what has arrived there. I'm afraid I'm still puzzled Ha ha - did my post get in the way of your post six seconds later.Map wise after the Holbeck diversion down water lane Benyon Beck (only a matter of 100 yards away) still looks wide and strong albeit halves in size after Benyon Mill where there was a resevior.If they wanted the water to go along the Benyon Beck primarily (because they didn't need it for any mills on water lane) then it seems the water lane channel of the "Hol Beck" is actually engineered not to take a beck as such - but just as an overflow to the system which in 1847 remained mainly going down Benyon Beck. Key question may be does a load of water still go underground along a culverted Benyon Beck....

[jim]

Exactly the question I was posing in my post of 23.20 last night Parksider, and incidentally I have edited my last post while our messages "crossed" so it might not still read the same!

[The Parksider]

jim wrote: Exactly the question I was posing in my post of 23.20 last night Parksider, and incidentally I have edited my last post while our messages "crossed" so it might not still read the same! Sorry Jim if I gave the impression of nicking your question - I do hear every word you post!! Just confirming my agreement whilst coming from the point of view that the "Hol Beck" along water lane is probably a man made overflow........

[Phill_dvsn]

My pic is the Sheepscar beck Jim. But it's the same design as Hol beck as you say. Incidentally the water level was a good 8'' deeper only the day before. It all depends on the level of the Rver Aire at the time. Perhaps in your days you remember it being deeper, the river level was actually higher, and not the Hol beck. It makes a huge difference to the culvert levels feeding into it.

[Phill_dvsn]

You can see how the Hol beck culvet outfall is very much governed by river levels here.    

[jim]

Hi Phill. I agree with you completely that firstly the depth of water in the narrow channel can vary considerably without being noticeable due to the overhead angle from which we view it, and that the river can of course "back up" a fair distance west along Water Lane. When it does so the apparent speed of flow diminishes noticeably in that vicinity. I don't think it ever backs up as far as the railway bridges west of Bath Road.All through the 1950s when I first knew the beck the only place it was covered in was in the field west of the L&NWR line between the Ring Road and Gelderd Road. All the rest of it was open to view, except where it passed beneath roads or railway, and at one time or another I must have viewed at least eighty per cent of it. In normal flow times the narrow channel all along Water Lane was invisible, due to the pollution of the water and its sheer volume. The water at all times except in severe drought conditions filled the space between the sides of the gap through which it passed from wall to wall. In flood Water Lane could be impassable as the side walls were overtopped. Back at Wortley where I lived at the time the beck would cover the fields surrounding it completely, and flood across the Ring Road and into the gardens of the houses at the other side, shutting the Ring Road to traffic for days. This occurred most years, and was presumably the cause of the construction of the Farnley Balancing Reservoir.Check Tilly's photos, which I referred to in a post of 09.22 this morning, and see if you can indeed "square" the sheer volume of water which is the regular flow in Troydale with the small volume which finally reaches the Hol Beck at, say, the point of emergence at Springwell Road, by which time other feeders have been added to it. Surely a considerable quantity has gone somewhere else.        

[The Parksider]

jim wrote: Surely a considerable quantity has gone somewhere else. I've a fiver on Cardiarms coming up with the goods.....

[Cardiarms]

Had a brief look.Banyon Beck - a 'surface water' sewer rises at the back of the red lion and discharges into the river, but it's yards lon and doesn't appear to be connected to anything. Everything else there is modern.Holbeck - need a better look but I can't see any diversions of wortley beck, it looks like it's culverted all the way into the Holbeck at Water lane. in fact the Wortley Beck is culverted to meet the Millshaw Beck culvert and goes through the oversized arch of the disused viaduct. As is the surface water from Copley Hill the old course is interupted at Gelderd Road.

[Leodian]

There are mentions in this superb thread of the culverted Holbeck Beck running into the River Aire. I am unsure though of exactly where. I wonder if it could be where this photo (taken July 11 2013)shows supporting pillars on the Water Lane side of the river? That site seems to be part of the 'Leeds Bridge Coal Wharf' noted on an 1891 1:500 map in the Old-Maps UK (OMUK) website, which also notes the 'Red Lion' P.H. there then (still there now, as in the photo). An 1850 1:1056 map in the OMUK website has nothing named at the site but does name 'The Old Red Lion' P.H. and the next to it 'The Old Malt Shovel' P.H. I shall post a zoomed-in view of the site in my next post.

[Leodian]

This is the zoomed-in view of the site (taken July 11 2013). I'm unsure if this is where Holbeck Beck runs into the River Aire as there seems to be no obvious water running into the river, but I wonder if it may be hidden by the shrubs? I would be grateful if someone could please let me know if this site is, or is not, where the culverted Holbeck Beck runs into the river. The seemingly falling to bits 'shed' looks an eyesore!