Jimmy Savile

James · Post by **James** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 2:23 pm

drapesy wrote: James and Jogon-Good luck with the 'Savile is innocent' campaign you seem to want to start guys, but I wont be joining..... From what I said about Operation Yewtree, it does not follow that I believe Savile was innocent; far from it. But my beliefs - which amount to nothing more than uncorroborated assertions - wouldn't be enough to bring anyone to justice.What I'm saying is that the procedure adopted in producing the Yewtree Report was not rigorous enough to establish Savile's guilt. It's merely a record of allegations which have not been subjected to critical inquiry. The existence of an allegation is not enough to convict someone in a court of law.

Post by **cnosni** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 2:41 pm

Jogon wrote: The 'Report' has:-"..collated all the (key word) >ALLEGATIONS< against Savile irrespective of where the (wait for it) >OFFENCES< took place.."?The report is called 'Giving Victims a Voice'. The inquiry has not challenged any accusation it received.No one dare challenge it. The NSPCC has enhanced it's Fiefdom. The Police with Yewtree have moved from dull indifference to action.Still nothing new though.But 214 "incidents" (allegations?) have now been formally recorded as "crimes".Does this enhance someone's detection rate/target by clearing up 214 notional, unproved crimes.Sounds like a lazy quick fix and wants to be nice. Not quite,as with a few excepitions all the allegations were new,so no need to clear up old cases,they are all relatively new to the police.We have to remember that there were also allegations made by 3 different women who had no knowledge of each others allegation 5 years before the scandal broke.Im sure there were people who have tried to jump on the band wagon but the evidence presented seems to be overwhelming ,and on the whole provided by what appear to be credible and genuinely effected people.If their allegations are viewed by people as being made up then no wonder they didnt come forward before,they thought they would not be believed and it is proving to be the case that there are indeed people who will dismiss their allegations out of hand.

James · Post by **James** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 2:55 pm

It is not dismissing anything out of hand to remind you that if Savile were alive, then the allegations contained in the Yewtree Report would be a necessary but not a sufficient condition for convicting him.

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 3:01 pm

It appears that one reason he wasn't prosecuted by Sussex police was a complete mess up by a Detective who neglected to write up her interviews until a year after the events!She then managed to completly cock them up, by confusing two accounts ,thus resulting in a witness who stated she had directly seen an assault on another girl being put down as only having witnessed something under a blanket thus giving CPS a chance to drop the case.it also appears that this same mastermind is currently assigned to the current investigations!

Spackler · Post by **Spackler** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 9:58 pm

Havent been on this site for a while since it went down for so long. Wish I hadnt come back reading some of the recent posts on this thread

Jogon · Post by **Jogon** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 10:44 pm

Yewtree hasn't done Savile's victims any favours at all. It is a really badly missed opportunity.What could and ought to have been a proper (belated) thorough investigation has ended as a poor hybrid co-production with NSPCC+ police.It has a look of "balance of probability" pr job (victims have been listened to)rather than normal UK Criminal test :- "beyond reasonable doubt".And now sadly anyone who points out it's obvious weakness is viewed as 'defending Savile' / 'not being on the right side' / 'proving that the victims didn't come forward at the time because folks (like you - challenger of yewtree) would've doubted them'. Quite the contrary.

Spackler · Post by **Spackler** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 11:12 pm

Jogon wrote: Yewtree hasn't done Savile's victims any favours at all. It is a really badly missed opportunity.What could and ought to have been a proper (belated) thorough investigation has ended as a poor hybrid co-production with NSPCC+ police.It has a look of "balance of probability" pr job (victims have been listened to)rather than normal UK Criminal test :- "beyond reasonable doubt".And now sadly anyone who points out it's obvious weakness is viewed as 'defending Savile' / 'not being on the right side' / 'proving that the victims didn't come forward at the time because folks (like you - challenger of yewtree) would've doubted them'. Quite the contrary. I havent accused you of anything Jogon, if you are indeed replying to my post. However I would suggest that maybe its up to the victims to speak as to whether its done any favours to them at all, particularly the ones who have had to live with their alleged assaults all their life and who have only recently found the courage thanks to the publicity to come forward.I wont be replying again on this subject or this forum as Im disappointed the way this site has headed. I dont think its right while the criminal investigation is ongoing to be commenting in detail on this subject. But I will say I dont think this thread paints this site or our city in the best light. There again I've never been part of the clique on here so I doubt anyone cares my opinion or the fact that I wont be posting on here anymore.

anthonydna · Post by **anthonydna** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 11:32 pm

To be fair to Jogon and James their views have been pretty consistent from August onwards.

book · Post by **book** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 11:33 pm

The value of this site is that it does allow opinion, your opinion is your opinion and others may have different ones, that's the key to living in a democracy. You can see how this thread developed that feelings changed as news broke on a daily basis. The end result of this enquiry is as emotive as when it started. To broad brush stroke the site as heading in a certain direction is a tad OTT. There are certain topics that seem to be cliquish or nerdy and that may be because particular posters have interests that are diverse and not to everyone's liking.

The Parksider · Post by **The Parksider** » Sun 13 Jan, 2013 11:47 pm

Spackler wrote: I wont be replying again on this subject or this forum as Im disappointed the way this site has headed. C'mon Mods dump this thread, delete the lot.The subject is about various depressing aspects of life where people with money can do what they want skating along the margins of the criminal law, whilst their money will afford them the ability to use the civil law to prevent those that do perhaps care from tipping them over that margin.let's give Louis Theroux a knighthood for getting the accusation in. 100 cowards were cowed from doing.And let's remember just because Savile came from Leeds his actions are not about Leeds, and have therefore no real place on here.