Coal Mining in East Leeds

[The Parksider]

grumpytramp wrote: The straightened course described was exactly as I remembered this section of the beck the last time I wandered down there on my way to my Dad’s allotment nearly 30 years ago!The more I think about this, the more I convince myself that this straightening of the beck could have only been to serve some sort of mill by increasing the velocity of the water flow by effectively steepening the gradient (by removing all the meanders). It may be logical that if the lords and barons were inclined to seize a portion of land for a hunting estate they would ensure that they took charge of the watercourses, at least to water the deer. Both the wyke beck from great heads wood to foundry lane and the beck below roundhay grange to asket hill/dib lane are squarely in the park.If the remains of the stonework manipulating the water and watercourse are of an early bloomery (I suspect what stonework remains is attributable to the last mill on the site and possibly dated very loosely 1680-1700?) it would be good if some expert could look at them, draw conclusions as to a likely lay out, and sketch a likely plan!I understand Stephen Burt walked the wyke with someone who had a knowledge of medieval iron working, who concluded loosely cynder hills was a likely early site due to the presence of iron working slags along the beck from Dib Lane. Finally it'd be nice if the crumbling stone work was re-instated and the "weir" excavated and cleaned up a bit, with this earlier site then dropping into the local history scene!!After all there's more left of this industrial archeolgical site than there is of Foundry Mill!!!

[chameleon]

Steven Burt''s book includes Grumpy's quote about the granting of rights by de Sommerville and, goes on to say as we know, there was a plentiful supply of ore and that, round hay and woodlands of Seacroft provided the raw material for charcoal burners - rather than coal?There is also a reference I've not noticed before to the use of water powered stampers for crushing the washed ore.On page 11 it is also stated that (within the Roundhay) 'the rich band of coal was constantly exploited....workings so deep, water driven pumps had to be used to extract the water' so, yes - where might that have been Grumpytramp? (Intriguing how this one goes on and on... I hope these days we are doing a better job of recording our lives for posterity).    

[The Parksider]

chameleon wrote: Steven Burt''s book includes Grumpy's quote about the granting of rights by de Sommerville and, goes on to say as we know, there was a plentiful supply of ore and that, round hay and woodlands of Seacroft provided the raw material for charcoal burners - rather than coal?There is also a reference I've not noticed before to the use of water powered stampers for crushing the washed ore.On page 11 it is also stated that (within the Roundhay) 'the rich band of coal was constantly exploited....workings so deep, water driven pumps had to be used to extract the water' so, yes - where might that have been Grumpytramp? (Intriguing how this one goes on and on... I hope these days we are doing a better job of recording our lives for posterity).     Those are delightfully good questions Chameleon.With the deepest respect to everyone at times you have to make assumptions based on clues to get the to the likely facts. As Edmund Bogg said in reference to the history of the Foundry Mill, in industrial matters they were all too darn busy to record anything at the time. At times these assumptions can simply be wrong. That's no reflection on the "assumer" for instance Mike Gill who is a top expert on mining has corrected Arthur Raistricks work quite a lot, but that process is a positive one and welcome.I should wait for GT but I guess that over hundreds of years of iron founding there will have been with charcoal used initially and in time coal taking over and in time superior coals being necccessary such that it helped shut the foundry as they weren't available cheaply locally (ref: GT)I would not agree (in the absence of evidence offered) that rich bands of coal were ever exploited to great depths in Roundhay. We know that for much of the life of the iron industry mining was from Bell pits. Deeper mining clearly wasn't undertaken in the wyke valley until you either get down to Killingbeck or across the hills to Seacroft Moor.As for water powered stampers these are of course quite a feature of mineral processing "cornish stamps" being the best (for crushing the Tin). Again the spread of the history may be such that hand crushing gave way to mechanical crushing at some time.But as to wether there is an evidence of this, or just an assumption that a water powered operation would be "likely" to include powered stamps and therefore this can be assumed for the wyke beck I don't know.As Stephen Burt told me he walked the beck with an expert in medieval iron mining and founding.Forgive me for having a stab before GT comes back. I may find myself being corrected but will enjoy that nevertheless.

[The Parksider]

chameleon wrote: (Intriguing how this one goes on and on... I hope these days we are doing a better job of recording our lives for posterity).     What we are missing is a couple of photos of the weir, and the straightened beck with walling portions remaining and the older bridge abutments under the modern bridge.I can photo owt. However I do not have a clue how to upload and do not have the patience to try it when clearly people on here have to spend ages and try many attempts to get something up!!I also think the browser I have won't do it anyway - any volunteers???

[Brunel]

What we are missing is a couple of photos of the weir, and the straightened beck with walling portions remaining and the older bridge abutments under the modern bridge.I have posted some pictures here, are these what you need?                            http://snipurl.com/va9nm

[The Parksider]

Brunel wrote: What we are missing is a couple of photos of the weir, and the straightened beck with walling portions remaining and the older bridge abutments under the modern bridge.I have posted some pictures here, are these what you need?                            http://snipurl.com/va9nm Yer a grand fella...pics 7 and 8 are probably of the old walling that straightened the beck below pic 11 that is the weir.The way (I think) this works is the weir makes the water drop over it and "rush" forward with the addition of gravitational energy, it then runs dead straight to retain that energy that then hits the undershot baffles of the waterwheel which then turns.Plus in the time this was working it is said that the beck would have flowed stronger than it does today plus the weir MAY have been a little higher in the water that it is today.....Thoughts??

[The Parksider]

grumpytramp wrote: Parkie Quote: An item in the colliery accounts for 1781 refers to £9 17s 6d paid, evidently in bribes, ”to Coal Leaders and to the Cinder Burners at the Foundry to encourage the Sale of Coals”. This was the Seacroft Foundry, a mile west of the pits on the outcrop of the Black Band Ironstone Interestingly he also confirms that the Foundry began operations in 1725. Not being able to pass the central library today I popped in and found a book called "Foundry Mill" in the local history. Sadly it was about Foundry Mill Farm and the family, but there was a reference to the idea that Foundry Mill was built "on the site of the Manorial Corn Mills" and that Smeaton supplied the wheel, the dams the water and a conduit from Wyke beck for the back up water. The date of the foundry mill being built there by the farm was estimated at 1780, but that's all it seemed to be - an estimate nowhere near your more informed information.A further historical reference was made to the passing of the seacroft estate by James 1st (I think) in 1603 to someone for services rendered in battles. It said that seacroft at that time had two "watermills". The book concluded these could only be in the wyke beck valley. As that is distinctive from windmills I would presume that these may well have been the Corn Mill and an Iron Foundry.As the date 1603 does not fit the last Foundry Mill this could very well be a reference to the earlier mill from which the slags which created "cynder hills" were produce by the side of the Wyke Beck. I'm chuffed that we now have a slag heap recalled in living memory, a beck with a weir and a straightened course, and a 1603 reference to a water mill that was not the Corn Mill above Wyke Beck.

[chameleon]

the The Parksider wrote: grumpytramp wrote: Parkie Quote: An item in the colliery accounts for 1781 refers to £9 17s 6d paid, evidently in bribes, ”to Coal Leaders and to the Cinder Burners at the Foundry to encourage the Sale of Coals”. This was the Seacroft Foundry, a mile west of the pits on the outcrop of the Black Band Ironstone Interestingly he also confirms that the Foundry began operations in 1725. Not being able to pass the central library today I popped in and found a book called "Foundry Mill" in the local history. Sadly it was about Foundry Mill Farm and the family, but there was a reference to the idea that Foundry Mill was built "on the site of the Manorial Corn Mills" and that Smeaton supplied the wheel, the dams the water and a conduit from Wyke beck for the back up water. The date of the foundry mill being built there by the farm was estimated at 1780, but that's all it seemed to be - an estimate nowhere near your more informed information.A further historical reference was made to the passing of the seacroft estate by James 1st (I think) in 1603 to someone for services rendered in battles. It said that seacroft at that time had two "watermills". The book concluded these could only be in the wyke beck valley. As that is distinctive from windmills I would presume that these may well have been the Corn Mill and an Iron Foundry.As the date 1603 does not fit the last Foundry Mill this could very well be a reference to the earlier mill from which the slags which created "cynder hills" were produce by the side of the Wyke Beck. I'm chuffed that we now have a slag heap recalled in living memory, a beck with a weir and a straightened course, and a 1603 reference to a water mill that was not the Corn Mill above Wyke Beck. hmmm. Two mills, so we start this all over agin then - I need a holiday......There is also a copy of this book in the ELHS section of Crossgates library (I think we've mentioned it before somewhere). I only glanced at the time and found too, it was more about the people than the mill.    

[Brunel]

Brunel wrote: This has been exposed on the large building site Amberton Road/ Oaktree Drive.http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/ikbrunel/ ... nPit#Could it be a capped off mine shaft of Gipton Pit?Can be found on Thorn Mount adjacent to the boundary wall/railings of Amberton CourtI have marked it on a Google map.http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF ... 100aGoogle show a lovely grassy area, this is now a huge building site.     New houses on Thorn Mt.http://www.flickr.com/photos/ikbrunels/4913977598/P.S. Google have updated since I posted original, now shows the building site.        

[chameleon]

There were two shafts in fairly close proximity here, did the second ever surface or does it await the unwary still?